if you are calling me a twink
Dont do that
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Idk how DVC was but I wouldnât necessarily describe post-game as being âtoxic positivityâ lol
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That does sound like a massive issue
The toxicity being positive must end, and Iâll be the first to make a move
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my guess is marissa
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Basically you arenât allowed to complain about balancing in any meaningful way without getting backlash for being rude to the hosts or not appreciating the work they put in or something along those lines. There arenât rules about this and different people and receptive by differing amounts to feedback but most popular games and mashes are hosted by the same small-ish group of people on a rotation
I also mentioned champs because the problem there is that players who didnât advance arenât allowed to vent their frustrations openly because it supposedly slights the jury and people also arenât allowed to say that anyone was ârobbedâ anymore for the same reason
Idk what happened in the post game of the last mash cuz I didnât read it but Iâm just assuming based on what Marissa said that itâs more or less the problem Iâve described here
The worst one I remember was when Creature complained about the paradigm of mash balancing in general after an alexa/anne game which was a fair point in my opinion, like if wolves are winning every mash (which they were at the time) then you canât just say âtown should just play betterâ, like the balancing should account for that - and he got shit on by everyone because of his other point which was complaining about balance points of that game specifically (which I do disagree with, I just think he had a point about how if wolves are winning every mash then the balance should be adjusted for that)
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1 Like
You are so iconic i admire it 
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A true diva knows how to make their presence
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Like idk imagine you are conceiving mountainous from scratch and wolves win 11v4 like 18/20 times, the logical next step to me is to change the balance rather than say âwell town should just play betterâ
I think that other than swing (which you canât really do anything about due to the nature of mashes) the two main problems inherent to mash balancing is that there is no form of catchup mechanic for town (at least nothing I have ever seen implemented well) compared to normal games which can have a LHF/potential mishang get cleared via a claim or some mech - in a mash this happening to one slot is obviously not consequential.
The second problem is the lowered proportion of players who are threats to the wolf team. In a normal with no extra kp and letâs say, 3 out of 12 town players who are strong players , the wolf team canât eliminate them fully until 3 nights have passed or more depending on some mech interference. But in a mash the proportion of strong players is much less than 3/12 or 1/4. This is not because the ratio of players who are skilled enough to be a strong player is smaller, but because they do not read everything or have the time to play to pose a sufficient threat to the wolf team in a mash due to the volume and duration of the game. So when you have this lowered ratio of threat to wolves and then have wolves getting multiple kills per night they are able to remove the threats faster than town can really do anything about it. This problem is exacerbated by how stronger players donât get the chance to read everything or make reads on everyone before they are taken out of the game - in addition to not having access to later info for their reads like in standard game - making them unable to be sheeped in the later stages of the game.
The problem of wolves having increased kills at a level that is not proportional to the number of threats in the game, by virtue of the game format making players less threatening, and thus being able to remove them faster than in a normal game, does not have an equivalent problem for the wolf team. They do not need to read nearly as much of the game or try nearly as hard to be effective in a mash. It is true that town players do not need to read everything but they also have to choose people to follow if they donât, who themselves have no guarantee of accuracy. Wolves donât have to do this and thus have an organisational advantage that is heavily increased from standard games
5 Likes
actually i was curious so
hereâs every rule listed here the moderators/administration specifically have broken
Rule 1: You may not break the law using the forum.
Rule 2: You may not use or try to use anotherâs account on the forum without their specific permission
Rule 3: You may not buy, sell, or otherwise trade in user names or other unique identifiers on the forum.
- The entire idea of the patreon kinda goes around that.
Rule 4: You may not send advertisements, chain letters, or other solicitations through the forum, or use the forum to gather addresses or other personal data for commercial mailing lists or databases.
- Several advertisements on this forum have been made for forum mafia games.
Rule 5: You may not automate access to the forum, or monitor the forum, such as with a web crawler, browser plug-in or add-on, or other computer program that is not a web browser. You may crawl the forum to index it for a publicly available search engine, if you run one.
- Zugzwangâs Zugbot and Mayâs Maybot break this rule.
Rule 8: You may not hyperlink to images or other non-hypertext content on the forum on other webpages.
Rule 9: You may not remove any marks showing proprietary ownership from materials you download from the forum.
- Fortress of Mets.
Rule 11: You may not disable, avoid, or circumvent any security or access restrictions of the forum.
- Magnus incident.
Rule 12: You may not strain infrastructure of the forum with an unreasonable volume of requests, or requests designed to impose an unreasonable load on information systems underlying the forum.
- The entire concept of FAM does this knowing the fact this will occur.
Rule 13: You may not impersonate others through the forum.
- Magnus/May have impersonated each-other before for an april fools prank. May has impersonated me.
Rule 14: You may not encourage or help anyone in violation of these terms.
- FAM hosts have asked for other people to help set up FAM.
Rule 15: You may not submit content to the forum that is illegal, offensive, or otherwise harmful to others. This includes content that is harassing, inappropriate, or abusive.
- Mean things have infact been said by the moderators.
Rule 16: You may not submit content to the forum that violates the law, infringes anyoneâs intellectual property rights, violates anyoneâs privacy, or breaches agreements you have with others.
- Areteâs quizbowl gambit locks this point in.
Rule 17: You may not submit content to the forum containing malicious computer code, such as computer viruses or spyware.
- Zugzwang has submitted a fork bomb in secret cookie.
Rule 18: You may not submit content to the forum as a mere placeholder, to hold a particular address, user name, or other unique identifier.
- Bit of a stretch, but Iâm willing to say this has been done regarding alts for games.
Rule 19: You may not use the forum to disclose information that you donât have the right to disclose, like othersâ confidential or personal information.
- Same reasoning for Rule 16.
All in all, out of 19 rules, FOL breaks 16 of them.
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Man I canât imagine people being so precious about knowing everything about mash balance. The first thing I learned about mash balance is that nobody knows anything about mash balance
9 Likes
Shut up atlas
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Rules FOL moderation has seemingly not broken:
Rule 6: You may not use the forum to send e-mail to distribution lists, newsgroups, or group mail aliases.
Rule 7: You may not falsely imply that youâre affiliated with or endorsed by the company.
Rule 10: You may not show any part of the forum on other websites with <iframe>.
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These two problems together are what causes the sleepy endgame villager problem which plagues mashes where you have a disorganised village on day 4+ with people who donât have much time to put in compared to some of the strongest players on the wolf team working as a coherent unit
Yes this happens in normal games too but as I mentioned itâs mitigated by minor forms of catchup mechanics like role claims or mech which even one of can have an impact. As well as the way it takes more time to reach the eepy endgame villa stage by wolves having less kp compared to the ratio of strong players. And even when it does the villagers can usually defer to legacies a lot more than in mashes with higher reliability also
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Iâve definitely shared pirated content using the forum
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For Rule 1, I dunno, does Discourse and specifically this site conform to the recent British guidelines about digital ID?
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yup thank you i imagined someone probably has done something illegal but couldnât use any examples
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Zug showed me how to make a fork bomb
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Thatâs rule 17
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Was it submitted to the forums?
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