anyway i’m not very sympathetic to “town keeps losing setups what do we do” as a concern because that was the exact logic that led to classics maf being the game that it was
ok yes wolves won that one too but we had to give it all we had to even stand a chance
i think endgame mash town is kinda just the fundamental problem where the way people die in mafia games selects for the most mid villagers and the best wolves to make it to endgames. in a normal the gap between the two isn’t nearly as dramatic, but in a mash…
i think the most good town kinda has to start hunting the most good scum early at some point
which is a little unfair but i dunno what else to do from a player perspective
Im too sick to be meaningfully engaging in this convo but i am spiritually here
actually this is why i died b4 d2 in fam and anni. Im just such a threat people couldnt even take me into the second day
bored
“I should get back into Minecraft Civilization videos,” says man procrastinating everything.
might be more successful prots in that one game than the entire rest of the year of mashes since last anni
the biggest problem is this doesnt really… work functionally that great because the findability level of those wolves while the best villagers are alive is lower (partially by design of how those wolves are likely to play before making those kills. partially just by the nature of game flow and agenda will exertion)
like conceptually i find myself agreeing more and more as time goes on but the execution is an issue. a lot of the more findable aspects of a very good wolfgame in a mash simply do not manifest early enough for this to be meaningfully productive a lot of the time. it depends but
iow a lot of the ways those wolves can be most viably found is by their decisions and how they impact the game. what they do on an agenda level. etc. very good wolves just… arent going to post that different very earlygame than they would as villagers. its an awkward dilemma
alexa doesn’t pass the vibe check sod1, and then starts posting in a way that’s solidly between ranges. it’s really hard to consider going there in a mash because of how wrong it can go. you can replace alexa with ladd and probably a few other gamers. if they’re not howling, it’s just so hard to justify it over the bevy of slots who are visibly struggling to keep their head above water.
this is also true sometimes im sure;
however imo a lot of the time when other spks think another spk doesnt pass the vibe check. they are wrong. like anecdotally no stats, but i actually think probably straight up <rand overall. its probably the core actual reason nowadays i would almost never d1 a person in this category, if it’s on the table and something im even willing to consider, its very probable its wrong. you are just not meaningfully catching most people in this category d1 most of the time lol
people posting in between ranges who are very good players at both alignments… are probably about =rand. i dont think i leave either range on d1 of the vast vast majority of mashes. and i’d go so far as to say that a LARGE subset of spks who are very good at both alignments just are almost never leaving either range d1. like “solidly in both ranges” is likely almost every game for a lot of the people this would be most theoretically relevant for lol
theres a like interesting timeline trajectory of can the wolves kill all the people who have the understanding to pick up on the utilization of agenda/showing of hand/wolves having to be accountable for decisions etc etc properly (im wordsing kinda bad but whatever) and then also confidence enough and willingness to act on it, before the game progression reaches the point that stuff becomes more visible
it makes for a bit of a weird problem to solve lol
i think part of this is that an SPK is almost trivial to defend if they’re a wolf so wolves don’t mind speaking up to be like “kill today? what are you insane?” which is to say that they’re >rand villager when it happens because they only really go over if they’re a villager
thats somewhat Oversimplified but anime remix mash comes to mind as a case where on d3 there was some basically in effect gamestate acceleration due to a small mass event death and i was resultingly abruptly alive in a gamestate that wolves otherwise wouldnt have let me live to, one that heavily encouraged wolves to act with heavy agenda/basically hard powerwolf for the win and i could read the game dynamic and see what they were doing on a broad team agenda level
this is a part of what i mean for sure yes
i think most very good as both alignments spks are both extremely unlikely to be meaningfully found d1 and then significantly less likely to be ever able to actually go over if wolves
which makes killing them d1 just kind of a transparently losing proposition generally
we’re about 3 replies away from reinventing the halfway rule from first principles