yeah it was a situation of more “town didnt have the information of how close to losing they were” rather than “town SHOULDNT have been that close to losing” but because of how the game felt from a living uninformed player pov i think a lot of people parsed it as the latter at least originally. which i do understand tbc
but it definitely made for some weird discussion dynamics
nah u were fine lmao
i think the only real thing i had an actual frustration with in terms of postgaming stuff was the people who talked like it was like, free and easy and zero tradeoff for wolves to successfully get the full 10 douse ignite off. bc it did happen in some cases in ways that sucked for the wolves to read imo
i have no issue w ppl criticizing the design i just mainly dispute the idea that it was trivial in any game iteration for wolves to make things play out optimally like they did and the idea that the highroll outcome was smth that happened most of the time
i think complaints in the neighborhood of it being unfun, unreasonably unpredictable, not a thing that should exist at all, etc are completely fair
the let stett fire an ita role is doomed to never be properly utilized to get its intended value forever
tbc this was me shitposting about your own flavor role btw i didnt understand what you actually were talking about when i said it 
full 10 ignites is hard but i feel like in maybe 30-40% of games wolves get 7+. If the role lives to n4 they’re getting 4 douses which mean you just have to have 3/6 of the doused players live and then none of ur douses dying during the day.
I feel like it’s not as hard as it seems to keep a specific, non-spk player alive in a game like anni. Full 10 is genuinely impressive, yeah, but i’d still dislike the design if it was only 7 kills n5
I believe it’s fairly uncommon for the most powerful wolf KP role to remain alive (and not backed up) by N5, and it’s not for lack of trying usually, anni or otherwise. I suppose we could actually check, but if you had asked me pregame what the probability that role lived to N5 with 10 living douses was, I would have said close to 0.
mmm anni 2020 it did, anni 2025 it did, anni 26 it did, that just off the top of my head
anni '22 as well
there were 10 wolves living when the game ended, out of… 47?.. total. if we pretend that which wolves survived to the end is completely random, entirely uninfluenced by wolf play or strategic decisions whatsoever, there’s about a 21% chance that the arsonist is among them
and we would expect that wolves playing well (/avoiding major misplays) would increase the odds of the arsonist being among the living wolves
(this doesn’t mean that, prior to the game beginning, there’s a 21% chance of the arsonist living to endgame – one way poor wolf play might manifest is by there being fewer than 10 wolves alive at that stage of the game – but I do think it’s a useful intuition pump)
I agree that the specific scenario of “the arsonist lives to endgame and gets all 10 ignites off” is pretty rare, but it’s not like “the arsonist lives to endgame and gets 8 ignites off” would have made the role not unfun (I guess if the sequence of events that led to them getting 8 ignites off meant that the village got another day to play things out, it might have felt slightly less unfair, though frankly those villagers would’ve probably been pretty miserable about it)
the exact scenario that resulted in town not having another day also required “a wolf wins the tibbar nightvig, the town strongman vig shoots a villager instead of a wolf, the other town vig shoots that same villager, and the wolves still have a dayvig left alive.” i was actually pretty surprised that game ended overnight i expected there to be another day (albeit one with significantly reduced villager numbers and wim)
tbf that phrasing suggests that (by that point in the game, which of course is in part a consequence of earlier wolf play) there were quite a lot of things that could have been different and still led to a wolf win that night – like, if a villager won the nightvig and shot a villager, or if the other town vig didn’t cross with the strongman but did shoot a random villager, that wouldn’t have changed the outcome (and potentially might have meant you didn’t even need the dayvig, if the town vigs were killing different villas?)
if wolves started day at -2 the plan was to use the wish granter to grant another dayvig, which would’ve at least required the game to be played up to that point as a formality but still would’ve been a locked win. as is day started at -1 and hosts just called it because of the dayvig
I thought the day vigilante was dead in 2020? I do not consider Ara’s role to be more powerful if that’s what you were thinking of
er i am considering ara’s role to be more powerful, i mean it was strongman which bypasses bpvs unlike a dayvig and iirc could be charged by charge roles but
It could not be practically charged by the charge giver. The cost was like 5 and the charge giver gave 1. It’s strongman but you have to kill a wolf in exchange. That’s admittedly powerful, but less powerful than a day vigi especially because vests were basically non-existent in that game, and also I don’t think Ara’s role could shoot n1 so it was also slower than a day vigi
Ara’s role is still easily in the top 3 of most hated roles I’ve ever made lol
drop the entire top 10 right meow
The Innocent Gone Bad from BM5 clears everything and is #1
Voxxicus from Anni 2020 (Ara’s role) is probably #2
The BM5 town neighbor commuter
The BM4 town neighbor bodyguard with 3 vests
The FAM 4 Superlike Vigi
Those are the ones that come to mind. 
three modpeeks wasn’t a role, but probably squeeks into #3 for most hated things I was primarily responsible for in a mafia game
Superlikes were so, consequenced. Oh, Leafia