Bring in 3p 3 shot doctor + 2-shot night vigilante + 3-shot death immune role 
I think the average Iād expect is like. mm hard to really say, like we had numbers we used when balancing but its weird to assess
imo it kinda breaks down like
-decent chunk of worlds the role dies before going off
-decent chunk of worlds they ignite on n4 with 4-6 live douses (i.e. conclude the role has too high of odds to die to gamble on another night/some subset of douses
-smaller but still decent chunk of worlds they get to n5 with ~5-7 douses. probably skewed more towards the mid-upper end of this if they get that far in the first place granted
-substantially smaller set of worlds they get to n5 with 8-9 live douses. a lot of these are worlds with similar levels of execution that happened in practice, but slightly less luck basically. 8 is prob not absolutely giga wild and iām maybe slightly underweighting it but
-an even smaller subset of worlds where they go off with all 10 on n5
i think the 10 douse ignite subset of worlds is like. well under 5%. itās hard to put numbers to the rest of the breakdown, donāt really think iām gonna try they would be too made up
an additional factor i donāt think got super recognized in a lot of the discussion is that the actual effect in itself of keeping doused players alive had very real drawbacks and resulting ripples in some cases. like wolves made a substantial misread in dousing sceppy, and keeping sceppy alive hurt their team enough that i honestly wondered at points if they would burn kp there anyway
wrt: difficulty of keeping a specific non spk player alive in a game like anni - the thing is imo theres so much variance and less in your control in a lot of ways than a smaller game so i do think people are overestimating how much control wolves have over this and i think itās very like gamestate and game dynamic control dependent but would def also grant that it is harder for villages to longterm prevent wolf control of threads in anni bc of the scale and unwieldiness etc
none of this is to argue that any of the above is at all any kind of counter to the take that the role wasnt fun or enjoyable or good design or good to have in the game, tbc, i think those are all completely fair takes
oops i forgot i hadnt finished typing that and went afk and didnt finish a sentence
(fwiw if the gamestate was such the wolves lock won on such a wish and they like idk declared concrete intent to do so or something [I didnāt think that hard on the logistics of that bc it never became relevant] Iām pretty sure weād have just let them lock it in or something and called the game; thatās the kind of technicality Iām not about making villagers play out two hours of a lost game for)
anni 2022 wolf leader suffers from the same image problem as the flood arsonist, where it surviving to be one of the last two wolves is an absolute highroll edge case but made people much more upset about it than they would have been if it randomly died d2 or d3, and made people convinced that it was somehow easy or a given that that role would make it to The Final Living TWO Wolves In Anni.
Which isnāt to say itās not an incredibly strong role or say itās not a valid thing to complain about or anything, but it was another example of people seeing the absolute highroll end of how things could play out and having an imo disproportionate reaction* based on that highroll and the false conception that that highroll was way more trivial to have happen than it was.
(ngl I forgot about the other part of the role actually being on there cause nobody talks or really gives a shit about it when the role comes up generally, but i dont really think it is thatā¦ relevant to the issues people have with the role?)
*disproportionate reaction in terms of the perceived balance and average game impact. not talking about the stuff relating to whether it was fun, thatās not really subject to the Concept of being disproportionate.
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Thereās a very, very strong chance that my worst roles are not on my most hated roles list because they low rolled, and no one cared.
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thereās a very strong chance that these hypothetical roles also happen to be neighbors given your track record
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2 things Iād add here.
- The Wolf Leader was piloted by Marshadow, who apparently is really strong at wolfing.
- The Village Leader was piloted by a slanker, correct me if Iām wrong but Iām pretty sure that was Gorta. If Gorta shot at least 1 wolf, itās quite likely weād be having a different conversation here.
I even remember he got checked by a gunsmith, yet his ability to come up with a KP claim on the fly is probably the best fake claim Iāve seen in a long time.
pretty real
flood arso and wolf leader in timelines where they get sniped on d2 by a random heroshot or some such both get at most a āoh god that couldve been absurdā passing thought if anyone cares even that much
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the fucken anni 25 godfatherball meaning nothing is hilarious but we were like BARELY a timeline away from it fucking everything up
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a town member had a greencheck on a wolf! With the wrong ITA order things get much worse for town
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Cannot believe we got away with 2 godfatherballs controversy free lmao
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seeing the first godfatherball flip was one of the biggest heart drops iād had in a mafia game up to that point
seeing ANOTHER ONE, FIVE YEARS LATER, was nuts
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there was a godfatherball (idk if the same, idr the 25 one specifics, maybe acc diff LOL it passed on death) in anni 20. it randed on a low posting slanker i thought was REALLY wolfy and shot. i had been getting a lot of shit/heat for likeā¦ finding them as actively wolfy as i did like people didnāt find it a believable read. and my god them flipping that fucking role truly cemented that game on the road to misery for me i think 
this is iām realizing not that relevant at all as a comparison probablyyy but wow what a fucking awful version of being proven right while getting undeserved shit for it that flip aftermath was lmaoooo
oh was it the same mech lmao.
im ngl like. it might be the only actual role i remember from anni 20 
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In my defense, I argued against it both times
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i was also there, i was a more or less endgamer, became important at work type beat
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i thought people were gonna be way more pissed off about the lawyer but it ended up being a nothingburger
honestly i dont think it was discussed enough how crazy it was that they brought godfatherball back after the first reaction to it was āhey this is literally the worst thing iāve ever seenā
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