'80s Wild Overhaul FM - TOWN VICTORY

[Gorta]

that’s the thing, I don’t want to vote without the relevant info

[Lissi]

@Gorta

btw this makes these 2 aligned I think

Lemon and obscurity? Like both town or both wolf?

[Lissi]

@Gorta

did you ever answer me?

If it’s about experience w ChopChop (?)

I have played with him before, in Cop 13er (was LiLi041)

It was a very long time ago and all I remember was a very disastrous interaction lmao
Like, an ignore list was involved, long arguments over logic, etc

I didn’t realize until the night phase, when I read Leafia calling him Seth

But also it should’ve been semi obvious imo that I had 0 idea who he was, just from the way I kept asking for meta on him and trying to get his general playstyle straight

And also. If you are telling me I need to auto read him town or whatever for logic I disagree with

My answer is a firm no because I played one game with him where he was town a while ago, and that will never be enough for me to meta clear people by itself or be a large factor in my personal reads anyways

Anyways I’m trying to work around it by reading other things so I don’t think this will be a big problem this game, hopefully

[Lissi]

@Lissi

I didn’t realize until the night phase,

*I didn’t guess until night phase

And Zone doesn’t answer about alts

So technically I didn’t get confirmation until today but like
You get the point

[Lissi]

Gorta do you have any reads other than the 3p mech!spec bad one and the Lissi!scum if she has meta knowledge on Zorvo

Also I looked just now and you also admitted at one point that you didn’t remember if Zorvo was a more mech-y player or not

And as I had been trying to figure it out D1, I was asking for meta on Zorvo

And I got conflicting answers
Marluna was like, yeah this is normal
Leafia was like, uhh town!Zorvo’s more reasonable

something like that

Did you have any opinion on that also if you are solving off “handling of Zorvo”

[Magnus]

@Lissi

Right, this was the other post I didn’t get

This reads like something good to me

I don’t mind being asked to explain myself, especially if I just “say” something incomprehensible to anyone but myself.
Yep, that’s a good thing. I was trying to contrast your questions with Marluna’s questions, and the distinction comes from engagement. Your questions engaged directly with numerous topics, whereas Marluna’s questions were not. Hence “Devil’s Advocate”.

@Lissi

I just don’t get why you didn’t question at all why it doesn’t seem weird when someone’s like, yup off chance that could be clearing 1. IF this person flips scum 2. IF this person and/or future scumbuddies flip as a muter and 3. also this person is only the slightly scummier one (by virtue of one comment, and/or it’s an OMGUS) out of my two ISOs – let’s go guys, this is it! Our D1 plan, hammered out!

When creating worlds in my mind, I tend to make assumptions while sharing my “what if” scenarios.
I was never planning to vote Lol D1, I just went “alright, what if Zorvo’s right? What then?” and practically made something up. I had to, because there’s no one resolute truth in social deduction. I didn’t agree with voting Lol, hence why I brought up voting Marluna (and even voted alongside Lol near EOD); I didn’t buy it. I never actually scumread Zorvo for his theory, though…

@Lemonfairy

were they town in Kaguya-sama?

Marluna was town in Kaguya-sama.

---

I’ve read up on chat, don’t think I’ve missed anything because I haven’t directly responded to it, but for some reason I’m feeling drained. This usually seems to happen on D2s, although I’m glad to see the general thread’s active. I haven’t compared posts to the hour of day, but I haven’t noticed… slank.

[Lissi]

Mhm so I’m gonna go to bed now, good night

[lol]

yes

[Lissi]

@Magnus

When creating worlds in my mind, I tend to make assumptions while sharing my “what if” scenarios.
I was never planning to vote Lol D1, I just went “alright, what if Zorvo’s right? What then?” and practically made something up. I had to, because there’s no one resolute truth in social deduction. I didn’t agree with voting Lol, hence why I brought up voting Marluna (and even voted alongside Lol near EOD); I didn’t buy it. I never actually scumread Zorvo for his theory, though…

I mean, my scumread was more bc I felt he was being opportunistic (time played a part in that but refusal to reconsider/explain past the initial premise I felt was wrong)

And also because I felt wronged for getting accused of soft defending lol when really my whole point was trying to understand Zorvo’s thought process

Albeit I was a bit abrasive when questioning in hindsight

I feel like this didn’t factor into your thinking which is fine since you weren’t the one discussing in the moment & had a different mindset

But I don’t understand the gap between “what if Zorvo’s right?” → “I don’t think he is” → “I think he’s town”

Based off the response you quoted from me

And how did his theory post made you think he was town?

[Magnus]

I’m going to clarify in advance that I don’t remember why I made the V/V declaration regarding Zorvo’s theory, so I’m not obligated to stand behind it. I’ll go take a look and see if anything clicks.

[Magnus]

Huh. I might be misremembering. I made that V/V way earlier about Zorvo and Lemon. Nevermind, I’ll just reset my readlist every day because I can’t keep my facts straight otherwise.

[Magnus]

@Magnus

I’m also currently of the opinion that neither Zorvo or Lissi are evil. The thread has stagnated way too much if either or both of them was evil, they’d be fighting tooth and nail to shift the votes elsewhere. It’s possible a wolf is still being voted today, but the fact that nobody’s really making major headway suggests wolves aren’t really doing anything, so I’d like to all direct your attention towards Marluna.

Votecount at the time

Zorvo (2): Leafia, Lissi
Lissi (2): Zorvo, lol
lol (1): Lemonfairy
ElizaThePsycho (1): Cream
beancat (1): Gyrlander

Not Voting (6): Marluna, beancat, Gorta, ElizaThePsycho, obscurity, Magnus

Okay, I remember now. You two were tied on votes, and yet neither of you seemed to care about being voted. I hadn’t taken the plurality mechanic into account until closer to EOD, so I assumed if either of you were evil, you’d be arguing until you were red in the face, so to speak. That didn’t seem to happen, so I guessed you were both Town.
With plurality in play, I suppose there was no rush, though. I don’t really think there’s a tangible reason why either of you are evil, but it’s not the reason to townread you both I thought it was.

I don’t regret bringing up the Marluna exe, though.

[Zorvo]

@Lissi

I need to auto read him town or whatever for logic I disagree with

You should never blindly town read anyone.
Or at least I never do.

Do whatever works best for you and I’ll do whatever works best from me don’t need to follow how others do it that’s correct.

[Zorvo]

@Lissi

And also because I felt wronged for getting accused of soft defending lol when really my whole point was trying to understand Zorvo’s thought process

Yeah my wolf read on you isn’t really there anymore but I don’t directly town read you either.

My wolf read on you was more so based on Glass having been hit with that ability by a wolf rather then Glass using it themselves which I just didn’t believe her to be doing at the time.

[Zorvo]

@Magnus

made that V/V way earlier about Zorvo and Lemon.

Lemon?
You said me and Lissi were T/T

[Zorvo]

@Magnus

Okay, I remember now. You two were tied on votes, and yet neither of you seemed to care about being voted.

I mean I kinda did care.

@Magnus

so I assumed if either of you were evil, you’d be arguing until you were red in the face, so to speak. That didn’t seem to happen, so I guessed you were both Town.

Weren’t we consistently arguing though?

[Magnus]

At least from what I remember, you were arguing about theories, not really about being voted. Or something like that.

[beancat]

Back again

Narcissism time

Looking back at the interaction from Marluna/Zorvo:

People not understanding context clues

@Marluna

There goes Gyr’s theory of attacked by the BPV-detector…

Like
This is the start of this interaction
And the word “attacked” makes it abundantly clear which roke we’re yalking about here

@Marluna

Read the OP again

@Marluna

BPV-detector would make less sense with only one BPV-smith to be honest

Both of these again point to the known mafia role. Did they make a mistake? Yes. Does it really matter? Not really

@Gyrlander

But why are we talking about BPV-detectors?

@Lemonfairy

where is there a BPV detector?

@Lemonfairy

(was that a scum slip?)

@Zorvo

Yeah Um how would you know mafia has a vigilante for BPV and a detector?

@Marluna

The víg for BPV is the BPV detector, you buffon…

W hat
How am I the only one that understood this first try
Context clues people

…okay so the rest of the interaction is ppl just being annoying to Marluna
I follow their logic on why they decided to call it a detector, but the rest are just going “sCuM sLiP”
Doubt this gains wagon traction when all of these are town

TL;DR: learn to read deeper than the words, people. > 0 of lemon, zorvo, gyrlander scum. Based on voteparking on me from gyr and my tendency to overread zorvo, wanna say list is gyr > zorvo > lemon from that sequence

Narcicism

@Lemonfairy

I think the second half can come from Lissi genuinely not understanding how Glass’ post could be seen as role-fishing. I’ve already said this but Glass asking to talk about mech is not unusual in a FM game at NUF.

Agree that the pivot from Magnus to Leafia doesn’t look great but it also makes sense considering Magnus was saying Leafia’s vote “doesn’t mean anything” - shows that Lissi is taking a side between Leafia/Magnus. I kind of doubt scum Lissi would do this if Lissi/Magnus was w/w. I think if Magnus and Lissi were both scum, Lissi would not be able to swing the suspicion back to Leafia so naturally (I think she would focus on Magnus instead).

I could potentially see scum!Lissi doing this to defend scumpartner!Glass but I kind of townread Glass rn.

Hm!
Point taken
Meta is always good to have

@Leafia

How was that a mistake instead of a slip?

Calling that particular role definitely seemed like a mistake, and after re-reading I feel justified
There was a very clear line of reasoning, and I definitely see the possibility of me doing that kind of thing

@Leafia

It was Marluna that was ssying that a BPV detector was one of the mafia toles, not Zorvo

Right but zorvo and gang are the ones calling it a slip and overreacting
The only case this interaction had any TMI was if scum did actually have a separate detector and ha dthis knowledge reflected in calling Luna’s mistake a slip instantly

The last one is a far stretch but it’s possible
And that’s the only casr I see TMI

@Zorvo

You have a grudge on me don’t yeah?

:3
You know me too well man
Like I know it’s wildly unlikely (and have proven to be not true) tbat you’re scum every game
But I just dont understand some of your comments

@Lissi

Why would you vote Zorvo for doing something that is normal for him (or at least scummy for others but not for him…??? idk what you’re getting at here) when you think my post sticks out to you as the only one that is so problematic?

Well I found Zorvo’s more problematic
While I do recognize I am usually wrong on Zorvo and underestimate the extent of his “normal” setting being conpletely indecipherable to me, he’s very far in the wrong there

@Lissi

And Leafia not reacting to the prior talk, so why go after the “mech!spec” that didn’t even literally state “roles”?

While I do recognize where you’re coming from, think our bar for mechspec is quite different
The Leafia vote was totally justified imo

@Cream

– Doesn’t make sense that “if it was anyone other than zorvo he’d kill that with fire” but then goes around and votes Zorvo. My interpretation, correct me if I’m wrong, is that “If it were anyone other than Zorvo coming up with that weird theory, than I’d be mega sus of them. But since it’s Zorvo, and Zorvo is known for townie weird theories, it’s more okay.”

Yes Zorvo does weird stuff
Doesnt mean I should excuse them and not scumread them for it
When I say “if it wad anyone else burn them with fire” that means it’s an immediate convincing operation for everyone else, a preliminary warning while I look deeper into things for Zorvo

[beancat]

I’ll step back on Zorvo this time, since I am indeed usually wrong

Then time to vote the people that are similarly being unreasonably on marluna

VOTE: Gyrlander

[Marluna]

Well.
The read the OP again was the reaction, where people said BPV-smith can be the only town BPV-role, if I remember correctly.

@beancat since lemon was not CCed, she is confirmed town, to be honest.