Cookie Thread Act 3: The Cookie Strikes Back

[Litten]

@Litten

That’s an interesting response. Previous research has indicated that most people disagree with you that it would be right to push the fat man off the bridge into the path of the train. However, your response is certainly consistent with your claim that Casey Jones should divert the runaway train so that it only kills one person rather than five. However, as before, there is a puzzle in that you do not think there is any general moral requirement to maximise happiness, which makes the reason why you think it is justified to kill the fat man to save five people unclear. Perhaps your response to the scenario below will help to clarify your thinking here.

its psychonalyzing mob menality

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

this was written by an AI

[Litten]

@Litten

Okay so this scenario is identical to the preceding scenario but with one crucial difference. This time Marty Bakerman knows with absolute certainty that the fat man on the bridge is responsible for the failure the train’s brakes: upset by train fare increases, he sabotaged the brakes with the intention of causing an accident. As before, the only way to stop the train and save the lives of the five people already on the track is to push the fat saboteur off the bridge into the path of the train.

this is like a slam dunk right
push him again

[Zugzwang]

@Litten

Should Marty push the fat saboteur onto the track

certainly

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

@Litten

upset by train fare increases,

what the hell is this motive

[Litten]

this time he deserves it

[Arctic]

The train already came and went

[Zugzwang]

SO true

[Chloe]

i miss when tutuu only liked posts that she enjoyed

getting a single notification was like “omg what post did tutuu like aw yay happy”

[Zugzwang]

but anyway is this AI or some prewritten text adventure-esque prompts

[Chloe]

tho i wont complain at hundreds of tutuu likes

[Litten]

Your belief that the right thing to do is to throw the saboteur off the bridge is not surprising given your previous response that it would be right to throw an ‘innocent’ (fat) man off the bridge if it had the effect of saving five people. We noted a tension in your earlier response in that it wasn’t clear why you thought it justified to kill the innocent man given that you do not think there is any general moral requirement to maximise happiness. However, this tension is less pronounced this time around, since presumably thoughts to do with culpability are part of the moral calculus in deciding whether it is justified to throw the saboteur off the bridge. It is possible that similar thoughts about culpability will be a part of how you think about the scenario below.

The Fat Man and the Ticking Bomb (Scenario 4 of 4)

The fat man, having avoided being thrown in front of the runaway train, has been arrested, and is now in police custody. He states that he has hidden a nuclear device in a major urban centre, which has been primed to explode in 24 hours time. The following things are true:

1. The bomb will explode in 24 hours time.
2. It will kill a million people if it explodes.
3. If bomb disposal experts get to the bomb before it explodes, there’s a chance it could be defused.
4. The fat man cannot be tricked into revealing the location of the bomb, nor is it possible to appeal to his better nature, nor is it possible to persuade him that he was wrong to plant the bomb in the first place.
5. If the fat man is tortured, then it is estimated there is a 75% chance that he will give up the bomb’s location.
6. If the fat man does not reveal the location, the bomb will explode, and a million people will die: there is no other way of finding out where the bomb is located.

Should the fat man be tortured in the hope that he will reveal the location of the nuclear device?

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

[Arctic]

I agree let’s go back to this

[katze]

its ok i barely like posts compared to most active users so if i like your post you did something right

[Litten]

@Litten

If the fat man is tortured, then it is estimated there is a 75% chance that he will give up the bomb’s location.

moral calculus is we multiply this by the amount of lives right
AND WE ALREADY SAID TORTURE WAS COOL

[Zugzwang]

yes

this is why I said torture is sometimes justified

[Arctic]

you just like trying to be exclusive

a stark contrast from your mother

[Arete]

the funniest trolley problem variant is the Five Really Stupid People version

basically, there’s a trolley running down the track. if you do nothing, it will derail, killing everyone aboard and everyone on any tracks. you can send it onto either of two tracks

on one track is one person who’s been kidnapped and tied to a train track by a supervillain

on the other track are five people all of whom thought it would be an awesome idea to take a nap on a train track

[Litten]

Your response that the fat man should be tortured is consistent with your view that torture is not always wrong. It also makes sense in terms of other responses you have given. In particular, on at least one occasion you have responded that it would be right to end the life of one person to save the lives of some other greater number of people. It would be strange then if you did not think it might sometimes be right to torture a person if by doing so it is possible to save all those people whose lives would otherwise be lost in a nuclear explosion.

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