Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Mafia - Day 4 [11/17]

Forum Games Ongoing
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#5623

Here are my post facto thoughts on the D1 and D2 wagons:

I think with hindsight, Hippo was always intended to be bussed - May suggested this was true quite early. Soweli was right to get my head out of the sand and observe that Snow’s vote was too informed to be authentic from someone who wasn’t particularly following the game. I also do not believe that Hippo would single out his own teammate as a mason partner after previously voting her, particularly if said teammate was a noted potato. This interaction makes me feel quite strongly that Chomps is town, and makes me feel pretty good about Soweli and Frog. I am not letting Frost off the hook here for not being on the main wagon because he was a Hippo voter originally until he #daredtobedifferent

Hippo Voters: t!36501, t!Tutuu, t!Dia, Leafia, w!Snow, Willow, Jason, t!Melatonin, t!Eve (Frost flips to 36501 but would be quite early in this order)

I really don’t think Tutuu is wolf due to the clash with Snow. Post #3484, Snow’s justification for voting Tutuu, stands out here. They see the dichotomy of the vote as “does mafia have a roleblocker to have roleblocked tutuu or was this roleblock faked?”, which wasn’t really the debate at all. People were just not a fan of Tutuu socially. To me, I think this kind of gives the game away that mafia did have a roleblocker, who did roleblock Tutuu, which means Tutuu is town. This is obviously hindsight at work, but I do not like how Jason hides behind Gummy for his swap here. I feel bad enough about this vote that I would be ok voting Tutuu now if it means we can vote Jason if he flips villager. It just feels like a highly opportunistic wagon, and one the wolf team would be absolutely willing to take down a member. I feel a little bit less strongly about Frost, since he was online at EoD and didn’t vote anyways. Maybe a wolf just beefed it here and this was a preventable death…I’m not really sure. I am kind of obligated to assume Eve is town unless all alternatives are exhausted, so with Melatonin’s flip here basically the ONLY options here are A) these wagons are W/W, B) Jason is mafia, or C) mafia is so terrible that they simply potatoed their way into a second teammate dying for no conceivable gain. Honestly I kind of think the night kill selection has been too tuned in to be option C, maybe y’all disagree. I’m going to be real, if Tutuu was on a wolfteam with a first-time player and a potato he would not be leaving his survival up to a coin flip.

1 Like
#5624

I will note - I don’t fully understand how Leafia has ended up in the Definitely Town tier with like, me and Eve, but I agree with the consensus that if she has managed to fake being a real honest vanilla townie that this shows unprecedented levels of restraint from her and I am proud

#5625

I wrote like a thousand words here detailing stuff like how a lobby insisted it was unnecessary for a hydra to sign because of how obvious it was who is posting and then said lobby repeatedly mixed up who posted what to the extent the hydra themselves couldnt figure it out and it just kept wasting time all the way through lylo where we run out of time and mishammer. I decided to cut it into a notepad and save for a different game only because i couldnt figure out to use spoiler tags and i think it’s a waste of time for anyone to read who already understands why it’s helpful to sign their names. So lucky you, you get the summarized version.

I understand. Differentiation between hydra posters stylistically is cool and I’d encourage you to both keep using the different fonts and also sign your names. The clarity of having all your posts signed will enhance the stylistic difference and not detract from it.

Mhm lol

Famous last words!

#5626

you mean tutuu/snow?

#5627

Yes

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#5628

This is understandable. I just figured it was a point to bring up at least.

#5629

I swapped to Kiiruma because I felt buyer’s remorse about Melatonin going over but that doesn’t mean I feel like Kiiruma is particularly strongly wolf. His slot is kind of just a nothing burger. The biggest point in favor of t!Kiiruma is that the I totally have a PR thing was established VERY early on – before I think the jailkeep setup had plausibly been thought of by the wolves. It seemed like a very independent action, as did the subsequent revisions of the claim to “I’ve got a passive ability that doesn’t give me a result tee hee” and then “yeah I’m vanilla teehee”

I don’t mind if Kiiruma goes over before we narrow down the field too much because yeah he’s giving nothing and he doesn’t vote so you never know he could be the flopping fourth who forgot to vote twice because his teammates forgot to ping him. But yeah my sneaking suspicion is that it is a flip that will tell us nothing.

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#5630

just to be clear we’ve all read 36501’s flip right

#5631

Yes which means 36501 successfully baited a kill when she was almost certainly out of shots

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#5632

I don’t think 36501 being a 2-shot tracker was unpredictable!
Source: I predicted it.

Granted she was also dying anyways for a variety of reasons, but I think your argument hinging on mafia finding 36501’s role too scary isn’t really sound.

#5633

True I’m just saying it’s preferable to her actually being every night tracker

I’ll be very sus of anyone claiming a protective regardless lmao

1 Like
#5634

mm.
I’ll let you continue on your way but I don’t necessarily think you’ve out-narrativized jason’s general towniness especially with the impression i’m given of his wolfgames

#5635

Ok i didn’t see 3484, i was under the impression snow made a naked vote on tutuu for self pres

Ok maybe it isn’t tutuu then…

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#5636

Looking back at EoD3, I guess I was clearly in the minority in thinking both people were pretty good votes because it seemed like the general aura here was that it was T/T and there was no winning move. I think with there being only 2 wolves and the vote being pretty close, you would think there would be at least one or two people trying to advocate particularly strongly for one side or the other. But no it was mostly me and 36501 and we’re the towniest town to ever town so I don’t get it.

Also, part of why I’ve been associating Frost and Jason comes in 5417 - “You guys are pathetic if you thought this gives more info about Jason or me.” It feels like Frost is always talking about himself and Jason as an item and I just don’t get it? Jason doesn’t do vice versa, so it feels like active stapling. Maybe it’s a diversion by w!Frost onto t!Jason I don’t fucking know

I don’t feel the need to vote Jason today if another option would narrow the town’s collective PoE…I think a lot of the other suggestions thus far have been either A) flipping someone I personally find to be pretty towny or B) shooting into the townstack too early for my liking

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#5637

mm. yeah i suppose this probably isn’t pure-except-snow

I feel like a lot of EoD arguments do tend to get kinda. unconvincing. at points.

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#5638

At EoD when a wolf is on the block you are kind of obligated to agendapost over being nice and following good debate practices because you need to get what you want to happen accomplished or you will lose

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#5639

I mean arguments-about-EoD

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#5640

What’s the ‘simplest’ world here

#5641

I tend to look more at votes and wagonomics than people’s like, tone or rhetoric because I think most people aren’t actually that polarized lol unless they’re absurdly bad at lying

1 Like
#5642

I do understand lol and I have been on the other side of this as well; big-picture wise it’s easier and more fun for everyone (who randed town) including the hydra to sign every post as a habit in addition to anything else that’s different.