Frieren: Beyond Journey's End Mafia - Night 7 [4/17]

[Frostwolf103]

he has no reason to use the jailkeep action on you, I don’t believe in randomness, I believe in motives.

[Kiiruma]

I agree.

I don’t think it was random, I think it was a motivated choice to roleblock someone claiming PR who’s ‘2024 Best Mechanical/Strategic Player’ x3

[Frostwolf103]

if I was me, I would hold the cards tight but at least give subtle hints what you have done the first night and two. And not…try to justify why you’re town.

[Frostwolf103]

Angryfrog here is the ideal PR town we need.

[Frostwolf103]

I hope you do have objection whether I am town or not, this is not a trick question Kiiruma.

[Frostwolf103]

Because it’s a good time to do reading without any bias like Willow tried to do that. That reminds me in a game when you, me and hazard end up in F3.

[Kiiruma]

I mean at this stage I just want to send Willow and you over in any order.
What said order is? IDK.

[Frostwolf103]

@ElizaThePsycho

Read a but
Hippo is claiming mason
No partner
lol. Lmao.

I can argue this is also TMI, also hello willow

[Frostwolf103]

@ElizaThePsycho

@ElizaThePsycho

the first one i can think of is “they rolecopped kiiruma and came up with the claim later”

presumably this scenario would involve town!kiiruma and town!tutuu,

@ElizaThePsycho

i can’t think of a reason why claiming to block kiiruma over tutuu would be beneficial, though?
it doesn’t add any weight to snow’s claim, unless tutuu would be considered a particularly bad jailkeep target (I don’t actually know if that’s true)
they would know it would be Safe but i don’t see why they wouldn’t just claim a block on tutuu

@ElizaThePsycho

when did tutuu claim their role, exactly?

@diafiasco

Start of D2 (before Snow claimed)

@melatonin

mid d2 bc everyone was paranoid of him I think. I think tutuu started d2 saying he was blocked targeting kiiruma but not the action.

be back in 10 min

meow

@ElizaThePsycho

when did snow claim their target as well

@diafiasco

Maybe like 4 hours before EoD

@melatonin

near eod2 I think, we asked if they targeted tutuu and they said kiiruma

meow

@ElizaThePsycho

if the timings line up, tutuu could be considered a “bad block target” and snow would want to avoid implicating themselves, but

@ElizaThePsycho

kiiruma didn’t have to think that?

@diafiasco

Which again leads to the issue of how did Snow know that Kiiruma was a safe claim that wouldn’t get them immediately bussed out of town

The likely options are either he’s mafia or he was copped (and he’s town)

@ElizaThePsycho

i suppose being mafia would also be a safe bet

@diafiasco

I don’t think the wolf team tells a lie that is ultimately not super meaningful unless they are 100% sure…if they were honest and Tutuu was wolf it would probably give him some towncred since no one else claimed a block

@ElizaThePsycho

i had assumed rolecop because that’s the easiest way for mafia to know someone is a safeclaim
but, and especially if kiiruma was carrying the factional kill, a claim like that could be quite beneficial

@ElizaThePsycho

fwiw in this scenario (snow did block tutuu but lied about it) i think that snow lied in the heat of the moment so that they wouldn’t have to claim a block on a person who isn’t a very good block target

the only way this scenario isn’t true ihmo is if tutuu is mafia as well, and coordinated the play specifically to make him look good if/when snow flipped; presumably this would be coupled with bussing, but the eod votecount doesn’t actually tell me given that tutuu was the CW
there’s zero way mafia have any extra direct blocker, and a rolestopper going on kiiruma just doesn’t make sense when he was already being jailkept

the above would also all only be true if the claim happened at a time when snow was a wagon, but tutuu wasn’t a serious wagon

so unless tutuu is also mafia, i find it likely that wolves either copped kiiruma or kiiruma is a wolf himself
… this isn’t actually very helpful, is it

@ElizaThePsycho

eh
all that means is that tutuu’s claim isn’t clearing

@ElizaThePsycho

… i kinda doubt mafia have 3 PRs though but

@ElizaThePsycho

i suppose you could always fold the neighborizer into the rolecop JOAT

(strike 2)

@ElizaThePsycho

(^ this one was 10 minutes before eod in response to being asked if they were jailkeeper

This wall of post in #6011 would say some interesting things about Kiiruma would indicate he’s wolf how Snow is coordinated together, and from the previous quotes that Willow suspected Tutuu being the one benefiting with Snow instead of tying down the dots, Willow abandons this and goes to vote Kiiruma instead.

@ElizaThePsycho

TL;DR jason seems pretty townie off of this, tutuu as well, whereas kiiruma comes off looking pretty bad

Of course Kiiruma has to correct the mistake, while Willow is fixated on Tutuu and Kiiruma. (Not gonna lie, not investigating any further was not a smart thing to do)

@Kiiruma

This was Frost’s response. Frost directly said ‘No you didn’t?’ with regards to snow’s claim to have visited me.
And then said ‘What does that make Tutuu?’ which again, how does Frost know that snow chosen Tutuu?

@Leafia

The only question being would Snow have claimed to visit his partner?

@ElizaThePsycho

Absolutely

@ElizaThePsycho

It gives a damm good look to kii under normal circumstances
No one jail keeps their partner
But we know they didn’t, they jailed tutuu

@Serie

D5 Final Voutecount

tutuu (5): diafiasco, Chomps, AngryFrog, Eve, tutuu

@ElizaThePsycho

no, tutuu self-hammered; i find it much more likely that they were being bussed

Ignoring Kiiruma and me for this day

@ElizaThePsycho

fwiw i think kiiruma is essentially clear here now because tutuu was, in fact, wolf

@ElizaThePsycho

kiiruma is probably clear off of the jailkeeper interactions
we know he was either copped or wolf, and we assumed that the jailkeeper did actually target tutuu
the only exception to this circumstances was tutuu being wolf, in which case kii was in fact actually jailed, but uh

Ah no, you’re bringing this back up again.

[Frostwolf103]

VOTE: WIllow

I have seen enough.

[Frostwolf103]

@ElizaThePsycho

Oh my god how did we miss that

@Kiiruma

I hate that you’ve pointed this out

@Kiiruma

Though it was kinda thanks to Willow I’d even seen it a bit x3

@Frostwolf103

That might put you in good faith, you’re not the one who suggested this.

Well unless Kiiruma trapped you, I think your read progression wasn’t honest.

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

@Kiiruma

No single slot had claimed to be roleblocked on Night 1 (Except for a wolf who wouldn’t have been blocked). I think Snow truthfully revealed who was jailkept, not realising that for many others a jailkeeper wouldn’t just target someone they null read who claimed to have an effect. Tutuu then tried to take advantage of the roleblock, saying that Tutuu was prevented for neighbourising me, which I think actually reveals that I was rolecopped by Tutuu and jailkept by Snow on Night 1.

this is not the order of events

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

yeah we know
both you and kiiruma Win if you successfully push me and eachother, regardless of alignment

[Frostwolf103]

I remain skeptical that Tutuu would put their 3rd partner in the wolf reads just for his own survival, I am talking about you.

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

yeah we know
but we already know that It Doesn’t Matter If You Actually Wolfread Me

[Frostwolf103]

This can matter a lot tomorrow if this fails. I want to consider Kiiruma first because Tutuu put you on the wolfread, lets kill Jason and back to you. Moreso that Kiiruma suggested to look into my only source of wolf!frost.

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

It Doesn’t
tommorow, if we kill kiiruma and game isn’t over, me or you dies
from your POV, in this scenario, we are thunderdomed tommorow; if you don’t get executed then, you are guaranteed to win

tommorow, if we kill me, you or kiiruma dies
from your POV, in this scenario, you and kiiruma are thunderdomed tommorow; if you don’t get executed then, you are guranteed to win

tommorow, if we kill you and game isn’t over, me or kiiruma dies
from your POV, this is still a 50/50 shot at winning, but isn’t a Guranteed win

your win condition here is to Avoid Being Executed For 2 Days. just like me and kiiruma. send your cases to leafia and chomps, not me

[ElizaThePsycho (Willow)]

for the record (@leafia @chomps) i think the single biggest point in my favor is that tutuu Would Not Fucking Leave Me Alive As Last Wolf

we were literally the top two wagons that day; i was the prime candidate before all of the things happened
there is no world in which tutuu thinks that play was a reasonable self-hammer with me as wolf

[Frostwolf103]

@ElizaThePsycho

your win condition here is to Avoid Being Executed For 2 Days. just like me and kiiruma. send your cases to leafia and chomps, not me

Kiiruma and you has one case about me regarding snow and hasn’t changed since. I already make extended case about you, knows the points that would make you associated as town because of Tutuu pushing.

Again, 36501 has checked me Night 1 and didn’t go anywhere. Looked through all of mafia roles we know so far. I am at least soft cleared for not being the one factional killing that night.

I care about the solving, even what that comes from my own reads that I missed or even got it wrong. Kiiruma on the other hand doesn’t suspect eve is last wolf and maintained the stance that carbonated shot eve and failed. You and I did pressure regarding Eve (and also chomps and angryfrog because of tutuu flip)

[Frostwolf103]

This does matter because Leafia, tutuu and myself were pushing you until Eve hilariously bring down Tutuu, you suggested this is bussed. This didn’t go as expected, you decredited Angryfrog as legitimate claim because you want pool of suspects large as possible.