Haggle (rule discovery game) Game over (Zone_Q11 won)

[Kelsier]

Whats the full rules btw

[Marluna]

soon TM

[Arctic]

I can’t believe Haggle (rule discovery game) is over

[Marluna]

it was designed to be over in a timely fashion…

[Marluna]

first: the deck library:

the 10 cards with a green line over them are the ones, which were dealt round 2 and stayed in a limbo state still that time.
(plus the big five… I realized a few rounds later, that I misregistered the handwritten five as dealt out instead of the big five… luckily it was not randomized, before I corrected the mistake.)

The last few stone card variants, I wanted to use, but I didn’t do that in the end, and they just stayed in the end of the library.

[Marluna]

I used random.org integer set generators to deal out the cards. (just removed the setting “sort the numbers in ascending order” to give out ten 10 different numbers in a random order)

Usually Kelsier got the first 5 cards, and Zone the second 5 cards. (The only exception was, where there were a bunch of green cards in the first half, and Kelsier was already quite in the pickle situation already.)

And round 11 was already obvious Zone has all the rules, so I helped play into his meme… Kelsier hand still was randomized, even though it looks like it wasn’t…

[Marluna]

My funniest rule opinion of the game:

Everyone was already aware put the you put them the cards however you like rule, and the split section rule.
(also the exception of horizontal and vertical stays the same of no matter what)
There was an attempt to play a vertical line as a horizontal one (which by the wording of the rule won’t happen.)
But no one ever attempted to put down a diagonally split card in the way, that it would make a vertical or horizontal line… (That was my biggest fear to happen, since there are quite a few options, it might ot might not made sense on the card.)

(Zone at one point realized that the one who makes the choice would will be flipped, if the card is rotated 90 degrees, but also had the fear that the card’s value would change with that, so he never dared to do so.)

[Marluna]

Rule reveals and (some of my end game notes.) will be happenning in the next post.

[Marluna]

Rules summary: (with some of my notes at the end)

@Marluna

1 (Kelsier)

The part of the cards have the following mechanic categories: modifier, background color, number color, number style, number value. Once you played your card, your card’s rules and mechanics won’t change anymore. if two parts on a card contradict each other, they will be evaulated in this order. Rule numbering follow this order too.

2 (zone) → public

White rule and black outline: white does never have an associated rule with it. Any white on the cards are either stylistic choice, or the associated rule isn’t modified by the white color.
Also black outline around a number doesn’t have any rule either, it is just for distinguishing the number color from the background color.
If any part of the card doesn’t have a rule associated with it, it doesn’t do anything.

3 (Zone) → public
Playing a card: You can play your cards in any position you want. Horizontal and vertical lines are relevant to the card itself, but any other mechanic might change.

4 (zone) (Kelsier)

Basic rule: Unless otherwhise specified in other rules, if your card have a higher value at the end of the round than your opponent’s, your card wins.

5 (Kelsier) (Zone)

Split cards rule: Cards with multiple features from the same category have multiple rules. These rules can resolve multiple ways depending on the split’s direction.

6 (Kelsier) → public

A ) Horizontal lines: Both rules/modifiers happen
Vertical lines: Only one of them needs to happen.

7 (gummy) → public

B ) Diagonal from top left to bottom right, you choose.
Diagonal from top right to bottom left, your opponent chooses.

8 (zone)

Stone card rule: Stone cards have no value or background color. If your opponent doesn’t play a card which defeats a stone card your card wins. If your stone card wins, your opponent’s card loses, regardless of their cards, unless they played a stone card.

9 (Kelsier) (Zone)

Black background rule: if your card’s background is black; for the opponent, your card’s value is zero. It still has the original value for you.

10 (Zone)

Blue background rule: If your card’s background is blue, your card wins, if its number is closer to 5, than your opponent’s.

11 (Zone)

Red background rule: if your card’s background is red; if the sum of the two cards (Yours and your opponent’s) is higher than 12, your card wins, otherwhise it loses.

12 (Kelsier)(Zone)

Yellow colored number: if your card’s number color is yellow. Your card only wins, if its value is the same as your opponent.

13 (Kelsier) → public

Green colored number: If your card’s number is green; your card wins, if it was traded in this round, otherwhise it loses.

14 (Zone)

Red colored number: if your card’s number color is red, your card copies the state of your opponent’s card: If they card wins, your cards wins to. (if both player plays a red colored number, neither card wins.)

15 (Zone) → public

Mirrored number card. When this card is played, any card which would have won loses, and the card which would have lost wins. It only affects the hand it was played in. A hand can affected by mirrored cards only once.

16 (Kelsier) → public

Swarm cards: card with multiple of the same number on it has the value of one of those numbers. Swarm cards’ values played during the round are added together. (For each player separately.) Swarms defeat any stone cards.

17 (Zone)

Big numbers: Your number is so big, it can’t fit on the card. It is just a visual effect, and doesn’t have a special rule. Hey, at least they beat stone cards.

18 (gummy) (Zone)

Drawn number cards: if you win with a drawn number card, you will pre-dealt that card in the next round, (beside your usual 5 cards) You will be forced to discard the excess cards at the end of next round.

19 (Kelsier) → public

Small numbers. Your number is so small it is not even visible on the card. Once you play a card with any small number you tell your opponent two options (even if there’s only one option on the card, and you don’t need to be honest.) Afterwards your opponent chooses one of the options. If they choose an option that wasn’t announced and isn’t on the card, your card automatically wins. Otherwise the chosen option will dictate the card’s value and rules. If the chosen option doesn’t have any value (or specified lack of value), your card automatically loses.

@Marluna

5 (Kelsier) (Zone)

Split cards rule: Cards with multiple features from the same category have multiple rules. These rules can resolve multiple ways depending on the split’s direction.

6 (Kelsier) → public

A ) Horizontal lines: Both rules/modifiers happen
Vertical lines: Only one of them needs to happen.

7 (gummy) → public

B ) Diagonal from top left to bottom right, you choose.
Diagonal from top right to bottom left, your opponent chooses.

Yeah. This one was unfair… No one would expect rule 5 being a different rule, if they got rule 6 and 7. And rule 5 on itself doesn’t really have any significant worth, if you don’t know about the other two relevant rules.

@Marluna

Small numbers. Your number is so small it is not even visible on the card. Once you play a card with any small number you tell your opponent two options (even if there’s only one option on the card, and you don’t need to be honest.) Afterwards your opponent chooses one of the options. If they choose an option that wasn’t announced and isn’t on the card, your card automatically wins. Otherwise the chosen option will dictate the card’s value and rules. If the chosen option doesn’t have any value (or specified lack of value), your card automatically loses.

This one was wrongly worded on purpose. It basically affected every card, which didn’t have any visible number, when it was played. (Most noticably, when cards were flipped, but would have applied to any other disfiguration of the cards.) I just didn’t want to hint in any rule, (beside rule 3) that there can be other ways to play cards, than the way I’m sharing with people.

@Marluna

1 (Kelsier)

The part of the cards have the following mechanic categories: modifier, background color, number color, number style, number value. Once you played your card, your card’s rules and mechanics won’t change anymore. if two parts on a card contradict each other, they will be evaulated in this order. Rule numbering follow this order too.

2 (zone) → public

White rule and black outline: white does never have an associated rule with it. Any white on the cards are either stylistic choice, or the associated rule isn’t modified by the white color.
Also black outline around a number doesn’t have any rule either, it is just for distinguishing the number color from the background color.
If any part of the card doesn’t have a rule associated with it, it doesn’t do anything.

3 (Zone) → public
Playing a card: You can play your cards in any position you want. Horizontal and vertical lines are relevant to the card itself, but any other mechanic might change.

4 (zone) (Kelsier)

Basic rule: Unless otherwhise specified in other rules, if your card have a higher value at the end of the round than your opponent’s, your card wins.

These rules were the core of the game. Zone got lucky, they got randed rule number 3, while the others got close to useless rules. (zone started with rule 3, gummy started with rule 7, and Kelsier started with rule 13)
Next time, this kind of rules will be either known from the beginning, or I will make a rule hiearchy to make the game more fair, (and people will start knowing rules from the same (or close to same) hiearchy instead of a random rule.)

@Marluna

19 (Kelsier) → public

Small numbers. Your number is so small it is not even visible on the card. Once you play a card with any small number you tell your opponent two options (even if there’s only one option on the card, and you don’t need to be honest.) Afterwards your opponent chooses one of the options. If they choose an option that wasn’t announced and isn’t on the card, your card automatically wins. Otherwise the chosen option will dictate the card’s value and rules. If the chosen option doesn’t have any value (or specified lack of value), your card automatically loses.

I should have the same extensions as I had with the stone cards. (With [if your card wins this way, your opponent’s card loses] and [if your card loses this way your opponent wins.]
The current version just isn’t effective or repulsive enough to stop players use underhanded tactic. (Like the way Kelsier simply negated Zone’s meme play in round 11.)

[Zone_Q11]

Thank you Marluna for hosting!
Thank you Kelsier and gummy for playing with me!

[Zone_Q11]

@Marluna

But no one ever attempted to put down a diagonally split card in the way, that it would make a vertical or horizontal line… (That was my biggest fear to happen, since there are quite a few options, it might ot might not made sense on the card.)

Aside from [me not understanding how that will work], there is also the matter of “how will this help me”? Because ultimately, the one thing I have not experimented with are “orienting the numbers such that their interpretation is not obviously apparent”. E.g., upside down 4.

I guess now that you mention this, I could have gained the power of stone more reliably, but… Yeah, I really don’t want to risk experimenting.

–speaking of risks and experimentations, are there any consequences for ripping cards apart?

[Zone_Q11]

@Marluna

This one was wrongly worded on purpose. It basically affected every card, which didn’t have any visible number, when it was played. (Most noticably, when cards were flipped, but would have applied to any other disfiguration of the cards.) I just didn’t want to hint in any rule, (beside rule 3) that there can be other ways to play cards, than the way I’m sharing with people.

Ooh… I didn’t think of that.
Well-hidden!

[carbonated]

goddang, nice

i will never understand how this game works

good job all

[Marluna]

it’s easy.

You don’t need to. it is enough if you have faith in the host, that they know… (and isn’t messing up results…)