ty though
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I dont get a cookie ;-;
The Good!
- Uhhhhhhhhhh this was amusing, Hippoās spoofed confab messages were hilarious to see people try to sift through
- Jason was a great co-host! Good votecount bot he needs to stop compulsively checking the notifs and ignoring questions and not telling me grrrrrr
- While the main gimmick got the fun optimized out of it day 1 i still think there was a lot of good information and lessons learned for future use. :3
The Bad
- As mentioned the fun got optimized out of the main gimmick day 1, which sucks but hey what can you do
- Leafia claiming day 1 kinda torpedoed some interesting play i was hoping to see with the half doctor pair, not shading her for this just a bit of a frustration from an experiment PoV
- WiM kinda tanked d2 due to host actions and the Thunderdome participants being MIA (22ās case being I think more tactical and Willowās case being more personal)
The Ugly
- Dia mod kill, need i say more
- Leafiaās card was supposed to redact the transmission code on flip but i fucked up and deleted the draft of SoD2 where it was and scrambled to rewrite it and forgot to re-redact
- Soweliās card was missing the section that said Lost Wolves could page each other but not text (this is my fault i am dumb and stinky)
Special Thanks!
@Apocryphal and @Hazardwaste for subbing into slots
@notblackorwhite for being the main brain behind the actual design I just came up with the general gimmick and rolecards>
@jason.mrrown again for being an amazing co-host
Any questions about the setup I will attempt to answer to the best of my abilities
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many such final 3s
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oops I didnāt mean for that to be a Reply and now it looks more like a call out than I intended
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What Iām taking from this gameā¦
What Iām taking from this gameā¦
Is that I totally should have said a funnier line in that UK hate bit.
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Anyway thank you to Fortress of Liiiiies for our first game!
Thank you for all being kind, reasonable, and for not doing anything to make us feel deeply uncomfortable.
Youād think that wouldnāt be worth praise but The Fucking Internet Sometimes Dot Dot Dot
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this game was more like candlelight than we ever could have guessed
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i blame arete they put the bad juju on the game by mentioning it
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i think you played great and were super fun to play with!
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I think I have talked over the setup with Ishmael over Discord but I will relay some of my thoughts here.
I thought the āfun optimizationā decision was self-evident from the setup, and I didnāt see that as being one of the core mechanics of the game. The upside of sending a message as a VT is basically nothing, and the downside is preventing the Wiretapper from getting The Message That Outs Two Wolves because you wanted to send a meme.
The codenames part of the setup was more fertile ground for experimentation, and I wish there were more roles that could use that. I wish Tutuuās fake claim was real! Great example of that.
I think there are two core difficulties with balancing the setup, issues that right now make me feel like this is a cool setup for turbos but not for long games?
- Thereās pretty intense swinginess inherent to the outcome of the first Wiretapper rand (at which point the Wiretapper will always out if the information is pertinent). For example, here are the potential odds for what I could have received on N1.
2/11: Messages directing the mafia kill, that would have immediately led to two mafia kills with no effort.
4/11: Messages between the masons.
1/11: My own message to Tutuu, that interestingly I could have randed.
4/11: Bullshit from the wolfteam or confabulation. This is what ended up being rolled, and Hippo was both lucky and very smart to fabricate a message whose alleged sender was his own teammate. That wasnāt a possibility I was thinking of at the time.
- This is kind of an extension of the modkill but not really? I felt really frustrated for Zone on D2 when he received a message he couldnāt trust from another player but couldnāt talk about it directly at risk of being modkilled. I feel like the language-based elements of the setup were kind of underutilized, and it wouldāve been funny to see full-on Drabble Duel bits from wolves trying to convincingly catfish.
Iām not sure how you incorporate these things will still keeping the heart of the setup ā maybe you the beautiful reader have ideas, because I do not. Anyways, good job Hippo (and Soweli, who had me fooled due to a combination of socials and the fabricated message) I assumed you were a gentleman who wouldnāt kill ACHRO* not Apo your names rhyme sorry on his first game back and that was technically true (because Tutuu directed the kill).
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Alright so the setup was primarily designed to test wiretapping as a concept. I want to emphasize that to try to preemptively explain āwhy didnāt the mechanics encourage VTs to messageā because that wasnāt the focus. I was curious to know if they would and under what circumstances, but ultimately it was okay if they declined to do so.
There is a tension between wiretapping being a potentially useful tool for either faction and the village wanting to engage with the messaging system, regardless of its form. Roles like the paired doctors are a potential solution, but that doesnāt work on a small, low power game. Role madness if all roles that force engagement sounds good in theory, but Iām not sure there are enough good role designs for that to work. In a similar iteration to what we had here, it could very well be optimal to just holster your action anyway because the wiretapper can potentially out 2 wolves which is way stronger than the vast majority of roles combined, especially if theyāre tuned for a small role madness game.
Another big issue is the feast/famine nature of wiretapper results. You either have 2 wolves or 0, and, because you donāt know the code/player mapping, you probably out your result fairly aggressively and force a code claim. Not good gameplay.
I have some ideas for improved versions that require the wiretapper to choose who they listen in on and provide some input that influences the result they receive. This makes actually engaging in the communication system much more of a neutral act because just using it wouldnāt reduce the roleās effectiveness. However, the details here matter and Iām a little concerned these variants offer so much freedom that they might be breakable, but thatās why we run experimental games I suppose.
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yeah iād never n1 achro on his first game back to FoL especially when heās townreading me donāt check my role PM
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What was the anti claim
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Fun fact, I donāt think I have ever misread Luka. Second fun fact, after Frostwolf almost beat me in a game a couple of years back by being a very sneaky scum I also think my ability to read them improved a lot too.
Donāt know what more I could have done in a day, given I battered Tutuu then correctly idād hippo as wolf but I clearly didnāt do enough interaction of those ideas to make those reads firm.
Anyway it was fun to be back. I predict if I play 10 town games this year the over/under on days alive for me is 11.5
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Can i still have a cookie?
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ā¦.sure
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All of it was worth.
Apologies Luka btw i should have just stuck to your read
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good job team
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Sorry well played lol