April Showers Forlorn - Day 1 (10/10)

[carbonated]

I think it worked mow

[meow]

I don’t have strong feelings about dia, but hammer would be bad

[carbonated]

I will say to make the nlatant move to hammer early on day 1 should br objectively good grounds for tosdong one out

[soweli]

something seems odd to me about kiiruma but I want to look at meta before going further especially because the mech-centered posting is not really something i’m used to. & really leafia’s wall I need to cross-reference too it feels rather dull, is my current stance on the matter but i can’t say i remember her past wallposts all too well.

Though to briefly outline my stance on kiiruma i’ll focus on the meow-posting

@Kiiruma

While this might be a decent thing to have as a gut instinct this again feels like someone who’s not really done much research regarding the previous iterations of Zone games, which I feel like reads a bit evil to me.

Aside from the hedging, I’m also not really seeing where this comes from. Choosing to research into the setup is really a personal choice and-- Ok it makes sense that he would think this given his mech inclinations but it’s weird to apply the same standard to meow here.

@Kiiruma

This is nice to give me a tiny bit of meta regarding meow since it shows perspective differences might not necessarily be AI.

I mean this more inquisitively than accusatory, but… do you assume perspective differences are AI otherwise?

@Kiiruma

This part is the part I find most weird, because mechanically we have no idea about Carbon’s double vote

ok this is kind of unfair. we know the phrasing zone used (carbonated’s vote weight is currently 2) & we knew that carbon didn’t expect people to see it which understandably gives off the impression that carbon did something to temporarily change her vote; though my reading still lay in the ‘it was a passive abilitty’ at the time.

@Kiiruma

I feel like in general my play style is very different to meow’s though so I’m naturally being suspicious of the slot and poking around on several parts.

I also don’t really see the follow through from this to the vote, there’s no visible effort to parse out the playstyle difference from the wolfread.

I’ll circle back to the rest of p#287 shortly but

@Kiiruma

The very final thought however, I slightly like? Since I was kinda picturing that too upon the first thought of ‘there’s a hood in a 10 player’ and the fact that meow goes into thoughts there later on in this post is nice to me since it’s similar to where my mind’s at a bit.

this seems incredibly weak as well like mindmelds are generally weak but there’s really only a finite number of hood compositions there’s nothing particularly unique about this line of thought.

@Kiiruma

I recognise that people might want to vote into people in the hood and that’s fine I suppose but I’m going to go with what I believe even if I’m the only one who decides upon this today

ok unpinning p#287, there’s a certain… hostility in that post over the neighborhood conversation without any resolve to do anything about it that carries over into this. If you think somebody is mafia you generally want to convince people. but the vote also still feels really weird even with the context of the two previous posts they didn’t really seem to convey a wolfread though the fencesitting justification later on makes sense even if it does not seem like an accurate way to read meow.

ok actually while i’m here, i don’t mind his post on dia it’s literally fine except he insists on the weirdness of thinking carbon’s vote weight was a 1-shot. I have to untangle jarek.

@Kiiruma

Oh given the fact Zone’s the main Host behind this idea and had Crich as a Co-Host it could mean pretty much anything and is weird for people to try and be like ‘We hyper focus on this group of 3 and don’t look outside of it’ because it could be a trap.

i… don’t think crich had any influence on the setup, the main people focusing on the neighborhood are people within the neighborhood which kind of disrupts the potential narrative of ‘mafia shifting focus towards the neighborhood & away from themselves’ & even then people are still solving outside of the wagons to a sizeable degree

[soweli]

particularly when it comes to jarek i’m curious as to why he townreads chomps? i kind of see the vision on the neutral-posting but that also seems by-and-large explainable as just a player-based thing

@Chomps

beancat town for wanting to kill in the neighbourhood i can buy the paranoia

I am also giving Carbonated a bit of a pass since ive read them very wrong on a previous game

@Chomps

VOTE: dia

this progression (I assume the dia vote comes from having hte other two neighbors as town) is also not too great, the carbon read is both incredibly easy to fake and very… soft? while i don’t think i got anywhere w/rt the beancat read. it’s fine, i don’t agree but i also don’t think it’s towny

[soweli]

fmsbl i forgot to check timestamps yea the dia vote is probably more a chomps-likes-putting-people-at-L-1 thing

[Chomps]

soweli the neighborhood is bean carb dia

[Chomps]

I don’t see the progression argument and your tone sounds like wolf trying to make up a reason to push me sooner or later

@soweli

very… soft?

you’re caliing my ‘read’ soft in such a soft way, irony

isn’t even a read it’s just a "I’ll not push my opinion of carbon this early’

[soweli]

@Chomps

soweli the neighborhood is bean carb dia

yes that is what i said?
you expressed bean & carbon as town => vote on dia lacking explanation (so I read it in the context of your previous post), yet the grounds those townreads stand on seem rather shaky. The wolfread aspect would get to like dia has been touted as a good townplayer => you have reason to push there but really I just want to talk to jarek about it!

@Chomps

@soweli

very… soft?

you’re caliing my ‘read’ soft in such a soft way, irony

isn’t even a read it’s just a "I’ll not push my opinion of carbon this early’

first of all the phrasing of it is me not knowing if that’s an accurate way to phrase the descriptor. Like I don’t really think I agree with that term, but also it’s functioning in a different context, I am trying to talk with jarek/other people about your slot and so I am initiating ideas, your post is intending to be more self-standing.

Second I would argue it is a read in several ways

1. The pedantic argument: Functionally reads are a way of conveying who you would like to kill at this moment. This serves the same function
2. While not directly stated in the post, the assumption I took from the post was that carbonated was acting similarly to a towngame where you misread her. Or at least giving her a pass implies you would otherwise be pushing her but the history of misreading her implies that the read should be reversed.

[Host_Account_2]

D1 Votecount

diafiasco (3): beancat, Leafia, Chomps
meow (1): Kiiruma

Not Voting (6): soweli, Jarek, diafiasco, meow, iamagummybear, carbonated

[soweli]

My readslist is like
Town but i don’t feel confident about it: meow, carbon
Town but with some pretty big caveats: gummy, dia, beancat
These could all be wolves: leafia, chomps, jarek (closest to leaving), kiiruma

i don’t like it.

[diafiasco]

the quickhammer attempt is crazy

[Kiiruma]

@meow

I didn’t mean to come across as pushing town carbon if that’s what you mean here. I was assuming carbon’s role let her use a double vote at some point somehow and thought that if that was the case, using it d1 was a better look than hiding it for later
unsure if I misinterpreted you here

It’s possible you and Carbon are paired with you giving TMI on it, or you as W trying to pocket Carbon, it’s hard to tell from such a simple interaction. All I know as it made me feel a bit uneasy regarding your slot.

[Kiiruma]

@meow

what part do you disagree with here though? I don’t mean that the evil role can’t be -EV, but that claiming it is more often town to me

I think it’s within a lot of mafia’s range to be claiming -EV things while either being +EV for mafia or just something unimportant in a way which tries to buy town cred. Plus in Zone games there’s been a decent mixed bag on ‘Roles which seem 1 way but might be there to cause confusion somewhat’

[diafiasco]

@Leafia

I doubt anyone is immune to anticlaim this game besides the wolves. Dia is just rubbing me the wrong wsy right now too.

not going to contest the dia is abrasive allegations but the anticlaim immunity is real 4 real 4 real

it also felt like info that was more beneficial disclosed to the hood than kept to myself

[diafiasco]

@beancat

id personally like the top two wagons to be carbon vs dia

plus it seemed like the other members of the nbhd were fully intent on firing into each other for what the non-neighbors would see as having no mechanical reason lol

i hadn’t even posted yet when this was happening

[diafiasco]

@beancat

orange basically won last game by anticlaiming from a chat none of us really thought were anticlaimable

did this happen i figured it was because leafia claimed and i claimed lol….i was never in dead chat btw this could have happened i wouldnt know

[diafiasco]

@Kiiruma

If I may ask a few small questions there. With some players who are well known for ‘tells’ at times it can be useful to at least be aware of them, so how do you handle those situations? Do you just see other players talking about them and go with the flow? Or would you look into them a bit if others were to discuss them?

it would potentially make me add a strict layer of scrutiny over their posts but like. it’s a text based game if you have a nervous tic you do irl when you lie i can’t see it

the substance of what people are saying matters a lot more to me than their tone particularly when we’re not playing in person y’know

[Jarek]

So theoretically outside of the hood how are people feeling about the game and it’s people

like if all we wanna do is talk about the hood and what it means for us all game I’m down but unless we think all the mafia are there then surely there’s somewhere else to look

[Jarek]

@meow

(I think jarek pushing potential pure neighborhood possibility is generally towny, but I would feel much more paranoid if it’s confirmed the neighborhood is not pure?)

I think it could go either way but I think people looking at it purely from one perspective or the other is dangerous. It’s dangerous also to believe just one of them, if it is impure, is a wolf and the rest will somehow be cleared.

We don’t know anything about the set-up or hoods until roles get revealed so I’d keep an open mind