[FEEDBACK] The Downtick in Humanity on FoL

So, I wanted to make this post earlier but, as it’s now been publicly made, I was banned for 3 months for toxicity, and ultimately I didn’t want this post to seem like it’s came from me being annoyed about my ban :joy_cat:, this isn’t going to be some complaining post or rant about how I don’t believe my ban was deserved, no matter my thoughts, but a ban is a ban at the end of the day and personally I’m thankful for the signup ban and not a full ban as previous iterations have garnered me. Instead, a lot of my thoughts have been gathered upon the look back of the game of Singers FM just in general and what it means for FoL, ironically enough, it certainly is the game of all time here. The case in point here, is talking about the removal of the humanitarian aspect of FoL.

I’m going to be completely honest, half the time I’m on the site playing FM, it feels like I’m forced to play as a robot because doing anything else is discouraged by the site, and particularly the moderation team, (E.G: The removal of AtE, the classifications of which are not nearly specified enough that you could end up considering anything AtE if you ultimately think about it beyond enough). I try to enjoy myself on the first day, I’m discouraged immediately by other players due to how they react to it, in other games? It’s perfectly fine, it doesn’t exactly matter too much, FoL is a community, not a ground to control people on leashes.

It also got me to think about how forced it is to not exhume any sort of emotion in that regard, you cannot show frustration, you cannot show anger, you cannot show sadness, you cannot show anything, that’s one part that is getting to me, I enjoyed the removal of AtE from games, AtE is something that sucks and as recently as singers FM, it got a player townread in that game just because of it, I won’t point fingers, that’s not what I do. But it has made me think about how much more professional the site has been tempted to move towards, despite the original approach of people just enjoying themselves. Almost every game ends with an argument, almost every game has people complaining throughout, you can’t please everyone, that much is obvious, but it feels like this lack of being able to hold enjoyment in the forums is something that contributes the most to it.

I loved the previous FAM games, FAM1-FAM3 were great, they were some of the most fun I’ve had on the forums, but then FAM4 just felt… lifeless at times, you have all these people in the game enjoying themselves and then to that same regard you still have incidents of players lack of enjoyment or fulfillment, you still have people who can’t get themselves to enjoy something like this. And yeah, you could use the argument of if you’re not enjoying yourself, don’t play anymore, but it’s never that simple, this is a place where there’s a lot of people who are friends.

I can sit here and talk on perspective for hours, about how long I’ve been here and the amount of people I’ve seen come and go, the new people who I don’t know all to well, and all those different factors, I can sit here and talk about nostalgia and the “Good old times” or something, and have a laugh about it, but it’s hard for me to say. I’m passionate about FoL, I love this place and it’s what keeps bringing me back no matter what occurs, I’ve grown up with this site, both the new and old one and honestly I’ve never seen the place so robotic at times, there’s a few threads that allow me to see the human side of FoL, there’s a few games that allow me to see it along with it, but even in those regards, it feels constrained and tightened because one wrong statement and it feels like things are all wrong for you.

The most enjoyment I have in this website is when talking about random things with people in threads that aren’t FM at all, I feel more relaxed and happier, hell even in some games I’ve made friends with people I ultimately wouldn’t have talked to otherwise, I can make jokes about stuff, but if any of these things are done in game it feels more kicked upon, like I shouldn’t be allowed to do it, but instead I’m forced into that regard and it’s massively disappointing to see from a perspective of someone who cares, or at the very least, did care about this site. One of the greatest moments I’ve had on this website was being tricked by Windward in an FM game who used a careful approach to befriend me in game, and sure I may consider myself friends with Wind regardless, but if that same thing were to occur today, it would be punished and frowned upon as an example.

Sure, it’s a social deduction platform. But social deduction games are best played with friends, people who care for one another, the removal of that aspect is another topic on my mind when I look at how I see FoL, the amount of friends I’ve made on this website is unreal, I’ve even met a few people irl who are on here and they’re some of the greatest people I’ve spoken to, but if I were to show a care or anything in a game, it feels ostracized almost immediately, it feels more like every single word is being policed, and I found that out more upon my discussions with other people on this website, it feels like an enclosure at times, and I’m not sure if too many other people that I didn’t discuss with feel this same way, but FoL feels trapped at times, I honestly feel I can’t exhume the joy I once held in the site, I will always joke about how I hate it here, I will always joke about anything I dislike, but the love I held for the site at one point was real, and it still is, I want to see improvements because of that.

The consequences of this are quite apparent, I believe most people can tell what occurs when a site feels dead, or when a site feels like there’s a lack of care between friends, people go at each others throats far too often when at the end of the day, it’s just a game, we’re all here to enjoy it, I’m not going to say I’m not a problem (:joy_cat: I’ve just been banned for 3 months for toxicity for crying out loud) and I also make mistakes, but ostracizing players critically for misplays or anything is not the way to go around it, you shouldn’t make people feel uncared for here, whatsoever. Toxicity upticks from the lack of human approach, and I’ve noticed it endlessly, and that’s no way to exist.

Honestly, I can’t sit here and say I know what could be done to remove this dread feeling, perhaps I’ve just been here for too long and other people don’t share this regard, but the way I see it, FoL feels lifeless, like robots playing a computer game, like programmed chatbots discussing with one another. I miss the life in it, I miss the joy in it and I miss FoL.

oh the humanity
(reading this rn)


Thanks for the solution

Im ngl I totally disagree with all of this. Kinda think things have trended far upwards and think this is hyperbolic. the flip side of this concern is the days when games would get really bad because people would be super toxic.

it doesn’t happen nearly as much anymore and I don’t really find games to be ‘lifeless’. I think I am the most neutral party to say this because I don’t play in any of them. I don’t think games are at all devoid of emotion or caring. I think the use of emotion as a basis for reads has decreased greatly which is imho a good thing.

I prefer to tend on the side of making people comfortable even if it means not expressing the full range of feelings you have on a current moment. And this is coming from me who is admittedly has historically been one of the largest users of emotions as a way to play to my wincon. And I think ultimately it has greatly contributed to a feeling of stability within the website. “Downtick of Humanity” seems quite over the top. I haven’t found a diminished sense of friendship or kinship with ppl on this website.

I do understand your points and where u come from I just don’t feel the same way. I don’t think there is a “solution” because I don’t think anything is wrong. Some of this I think might be within yourself more than the site because personally I think FAM4 was awesome and greatly enjoyed by many and there have been tons of dope games recently. I’ve been on the site for 5 years and I only see it getting better.


Okay I know you can have an opinion but this is very funny coming from Marissa “Banned until 2028” Lastname

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I think joy and life and humanity are kind of deeply personal things to experience. I wasn’t there for the days you say were great, but I do personally feel like games have honestly gotten somewhat better in the couple years I’ve been around. I’ve started enjoying them more, not less. And I think it’s your own emotional perspective here that you’re kind of projecting on everybody else when you say people feel lifeless and robotic - I certainly haven’t experienced that other people feel lifeless. I think you are a little bit, forgive me for saying this, nostalgiabrained.

I think people could certainly stand to be less tilted in postgames, but I don’t think it’s actually because of a lack of collective understanding of humanity, it’s because of, like, individual people whose cope reaction to a loss is to find something to blame it on, which is something that happens in any kind of game or competition. I don’t know what could be done as moderator or collective action to fix this. You can tell people they’re behaving unacceptably, but that doesn’t actually change the fact that they’re tilted, y’know?


Putting this here because it’s probably fine:

I actually hate how moderators can just be toxic and receive no punishment.
There is a certain moderator who I think has a misconception about me, that is the result of either a miscommunication or something else, and that moderator continues to be an asshole to me.

This is something that I am guilty of too, but talking bad behind someone’s back, is probably worse than saying it to their face. I think that in general, hosts should better police spectator, dead chat, and mafia chat, to prevent anything that could be considered harassment.

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i choose not to play mafia here because I enjoy it too much.

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i think wazza is mostly talking about the games here
which i do agree that games have been kinda weird lately. can’t exaclty put my finger on it tho

cookie thread is alive and well though. i am very glad for cokie thread

bad joke inside

of course there’s a downtick of humanity here, we’re all cats (and dogs) at the end of the day

i don’t know what game this was so i could be somewhat mistaken here, but unless she pocketed you by insulting you constantly or something i don’t see what would have changed between then and now to disallow it?

i’m kinda taken aback by a lot of the OP of this thread because i feel like its boiling down to implying that we’re being too strict with AtE/toxicity which i’d disagree with personally, but even if i did agree i don’t feel like having a level of “dont be that much of a dick in games” should feel limiting/dehumanizing? :confused:

i dunno. the site itself doesn’t feel like it’s slowing down or “dying” to me at least


the part I can take from wazza’s OP and agree with somewhat is that emotional stress is just inherently a thing in mafia. its a stressful game. but I also get that some people 1. want to play mafia and 2. dont want to deal with that stress
I agree that prohibiting people from expressing in an attempt to shield others makes the game feel artificial and honestly less competitive. but I also feel like a majority of people on this site think its better to shield people from it than to have what we did before (which I personally felt was better)

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we used to be known as a non-competitive site with below average skill. but at the time, this was a complete mischaracterisation of FoL. we had good players who happened to enjoy wack setups- and those wack setups earned us our reputation. im not sure if its the wack setups anymore that cause us to still have that.

on the destruction of competitiveness topic - I’m not sure why this is a surprise from anyone. this has been the direction the community has pushed for, for years. I am highly critical of the policies the mod team have taken lately, but I also understand that the majority of people want them, which is why I don’t create massive threads complaining about them in a futile effort to get them changed. I also recognise that this is a privately run site, and you guys can do what you want.


i dont think of “remaining calm at all times” and “being human” as antonyms. combinatorics mafia was the game that was probably most celebrated for people’s behavior recently, there was surprisingly zero instances of toxicity, personal attacks, and frustrations, and everyone loved that

weaponizing emotions can lead you to win more games but it’s a cheap shot and it devolves from the concept of mafia imo. it becomes no longer about who plays mafia better but who is willing to go further when it comes to personal relationships with people. which i dont think theres anything inherently wrong with as long as all parties consent to playing such a game. i wouldnt default to assuming most people would prefer to play in such a game, i think that this is a niche type of environment that would be wanted by a minority of people

i’ve seen people sending legitimate death threats to one another over mafia arguments in MU

i’ve seen people weaponize drug addictions of the argument opponent and threaten to break irl relationships over mafia argument in Mafia Scum

i’ve heard of people getting doxxed over mafia argument post-game in web diplomacy

you really dont want any of that. fol is all sunshine and rainbows in comparison and thats why its my favorite. its the most chill, and i think mafia is a stressful game that you need a chill environment to safely play in it, otherwise you will just suffer and/or break your relationships with people


My most opinion Is that I wouldn’t. I do not play mafia to have to play a game of “Am I an asshole for calling this person evil after they said a sob story”.


im not sure what you mean?

mafia has never not been an emotionally stressful game though

i dunno, i have thoughts on the idea that the validity/genuineness of the game is up to how far you can insult people without getting banned

i’d like to think that we are on the lenient side of things in this regard, even :joy_cat:

fwiw i don’t think this is a reputation we have anymore except maybe the part where we like weird setups


I haven’t been in a game on here constantly for a hot minute so I don’t think I’m that qualified to say much about this topic
However, real AtE will cause me to legitimately worry and distress
It will make me feel like shit if it is weaponized in games , when I find out postgame
For that reason I am glad for that rule, it makes games on here more playable for me


when i say REAL
i mean outside of examples given that are allowed in the rules thread