[Game Thread - ENDGAME 2/17] The 'Supa Mario' Sorcerer17 - Mafia Wins

honestly I wanted the came to end quicker so I didn’t have to suffer tbh, I felt bad tricking you, even said this in mafia chat:
image

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:sob:

When my entire Day 5 is me pandering to wolf!Wazza and AtE’ing her to townread me. :cry:

I showed up
Voted Leafia
Then lolschool

Also @Arete give me advice ( that I probably won’t end up using :wowee: )

It’s also probably the same advice

In terms of general approach, I think your idea of focusing on unaligns was definitely interesting and worth trying as an experiment. I would say that it wasn’t really a successful experiment, given that several of the unaligns were wrong and some of the correct ones were based on thin reasoning. I think that trying to mold your entire play around some specific reading method is going to be flawed – like a few people have said already, it led to you trying to force them even in areas where they were relatively weak, just because two people were pushing each other a bit. I also think it would be a good idea when doing unaligned reads in the future to take into account things like ‘Marshal is really good at looking not aligned with her partners,’ as well as to focus less on ‘these players are pushing each other’ (fairly common for w/w) and more on other ways of being unaligned.

math

The thing about unaligned reads is … so, you started this because you found your unaligned reads were more accurate than your regular reads, right? But if, on day 1 in this game, you pick a random player and call them town, you’ll have a 75 percent chance of being right (assuming you are a villager in this game). If you pick two players and call them not W/W, you have a (1-(4/16)*(3/15)) chance of being right, which is 95 percent. So basically, it might seem like they’re more accurate, even if what’s making them “more accurate” is just math.

In terms of specific things you did … in your shoes, I probably would have held the bomb a bit longer so that I could write a proper legacy, but I don’t know if that necessarily would have been better. I thought you did a really good job of working with other people on reads that they had made that were correct (e.g. pushing my Eli read, considering Marl’s Marshal read), which is a skill a lot of people struggle with. I also obviously think the bomb on Marshal was good, since, you know, it killed the deepwolf, and in particular that it was good how you were willing to (a) reevaluate on Marshal when you had previously townread her, (b) bomb her without worrying that if she was town everyone would be mad at you.

also, I feel like you tend to scumread me when I’m hardpushing on people, and I don’t think this is actually a reliable way to read me

Overall, I thought your play this game was pretty solid. :orange_heart:

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i mean yeah i get it but she tried to use that to rally up an elimination on the wolf who endgamed and was ml’d because of a play that she perceived as -ev

i havent read the document enough to know if it was actually -ev tho

oh right

I just remembered

@Vulgard

technically, yes

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If I may add to this, I won as mafia offsite as I managed to “spew” my partner as town and they won in MyLo. I’m not saying don’t use association reads, it’s that by themselves they can lead to incorrect conclusions same with any other tool used solo.

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cause i made it (the role idea) for the mu anni game a couple years ago (im sure other ppl have had the same idea at other points in time but ye)

suicide bombers goat

gg all thx for the invite geyde

wp wolves

in hindsight obv counterclaiming wasnt great, but i didnt think mist was villagery and wanted a chance to narrow down the wolves to one. (already talked about why the claim also hurts village because the sorceror gets outd to the wolves if stalker is alive) but i guess i just think playing it straight is the best option 99% of the time, if you die you die (lolfakeclaims)

anyway, setup was v fun, would rec it be run again

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One thing I noticed that you’ve been improving on a lot is not always just assuming that people who push you are wolves, good work there, I thought you did a fairly decent job of evaluating people’s motivation, even if it wasn’t always correct.

Something that I think you can improve on is evaluating whether people making reads that you think have bad/incorrect reasoning are doing it as town or as scum – I noticed that you had a tendency this game to say ‘I disagree with [x player’s] reasoning for this read, so [x player] is a wolf.’ While obviously the reasoning players use can be strongly alignment indicative, players often have different beliefs about what sort of things are alignment indicative and in which direction – it doesn’t matter if their reasoning is correct or will reliably produce accurate results, it’s more important to see whether they believe it.

I also kind of got the vibe that you were very focused on saying things with the goal of being townread? I’m not sure if this is accurate or not, but to the extent that it is, it would probably be good to be less focused on that. I’m not saying it’s not useful or important to be townread as a villager, but some of the things you do to try to look townie have a tendency to actually make you look scummier, which doesn’t really help anything.

I hope that’s helpful! Let me know if you have anything more specific that you want advice on.

@arete feedback on my play pls :pleading_face:

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peepee

poopoo

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GDI I did say that VCA looked horrendous for Wazza at the end.
I shoulda pushed on that instead of just kinda letting myself be offed.
GG all

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Oops. Sorry.

Thanks. That helps a lot. ^_^

Counterpoint: Leafia now assumes everyone that pushes her is town

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Which uh

Is debatably worse

Yeah this is exactly what I found well booky about leafia too ngl

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