in all seriousness i think town isn’t gonna win unless people make active efforts to learn from their mistakes, which is perfectly fine if people here as a whole don’t wanna, but that’s just kinda how it is
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not doing it but i swear bystander and ash rand mafia too much
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i am not a bottom i am just stubborn
VOTE: Chomp kill all liars
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cat → dog → wolf → mafia
VOTE: Litten
they do
I think you also do thbthtbhtbthbthb
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yeah this was the other thing i forgot, i think people play a lot more casually here and most aren’t interested in improving, which like, you can’t really do anything about. people try to win but most aren’t really gonna exert themselves, especially people who have been playing a while and haven’t really improved
and tbqh this is quite a fatalistic take but i think most people’s read accuracy is pretty locked lol. like there are some small things you can do to get improvement. but i think it’s rare for a player to start out having terrible reads and then become a top tier villager - usually you can kinda tell after someone’s first few games. cuz at the end of the day no game is the same and making reads isn’t really a procedural/repetitive skill that can be honed
a lot of people will reflect on a mistake they made and then say “next game i will do the opposite of this” and the next game doing the thing they did before would have won. it is rare that people take away the correct lesson - that is one of caution/moderation rather than an absolute
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but on the bright side (or maybe this is an even more doomer take) most people’s read accuracy is roughly rand anyway, at least early in the game so it’s an equal playing field. unless you’re like newcomb, nobody has a winning poe on day 1 more than 50% of the time
in my opinion the biggest demonstration of skill is how you handle new information and update your worldview. which as i said earlier i feel like people here struggle with sometimes
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newcomb can tell you everything about his process, and i’m sure he has. but nobody has actually been able to put what he says into practice as consistently as he does to get the same consistent results he does - because each game is different and ultimately the process is idiosyncratic. which is why i don’t think people really improve - they either have a good grasp of what is alignment indicative and what isn’t (in the context of the game) or they… don’t
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those two things can co-exist
in the f3 of wrogn 2 you initially said you wanted to vote zug, and then you compiled all of the dead villager’s reads on zug and leafia, and changed your mind to vote leafia
that isn’t stubborn behaviour, that is bottom behaviour. it also looked like you felt pressured to vote when you thought zug was going to vote you. also bottom behaviour
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dw bestie
takes one to know one
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In general I feel like people try to avoid… taking actions. That’s my complaint with the bottom stuff. I know this because I observe it in myself. Frequently in the mafia game I try to do the thing that makes the outcome the least my fault. If I change my vote to swap the execution and it’s a misexecution that’s my fault but if I stay on a random wagon then it’s not my fault. If I follow the reads of the dead villagers and do an execution that’s not my fault but if I go against their reads and place a different vote then that is my fault. It’s a lack of initiative, it is literally letting other people take control and going along with whatever happens.
To solve this I propose relentlessly mocking people who are being bottoms so that there’s an equal punishment of embarrassment for this behaviour as there is its converse
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Obviously taking actions is only an improvement if those actions are >rand correct, but IMO the “bottom actions” are almost always <rand correct, because wolves will agitate the gamestate and make options seem non-obvious if the current consensus is right, and they will not do this if the current consensus is wrong.
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is this supposed to disincentivize people
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If people really wanted to be mocked, they’d be killing deepwolves in F3s already
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They’re not doing that, so the revealed preference of the average FoL user is toward not being mocked
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are you sure the revealed preference isn’t just losing mafia games
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this is nonsense lol
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Literally I’m the poster boy of being bad at mafia becoming good at mafia on FOL read wise
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