its not an impasse fmpov. you dont need to agree if you dont want to. im just sharing my thoughts and giving advice. it costs me nothing
Iâm trying to tie this to Kyubey unless you are saying I am not experienced in the way you were defining it
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oh okay
i dont know for how long youâve been playing, but i dont think you have the experience of being a town leader like litten has. maybe you do on AoPs, but i havent seen it on FoL or MU. no town leader that i know of, or any site that iâve played, was ever genuinely okay with dying as town
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I wouldnât say kyubey is a town leader this game though
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he isnât because heâs not town. litten in general has the leader playstyle archetype. and in this game he has been leading, has he not? who decided zone and pandora are getting executed? i would definitely say litten has been trying to lead, but my argument wasnt even tied to this specific game. in general, a player who has the âleaderâ archetype, if they suddenly start pretending âoh woe me, im ok with dying, pls kill me my friendsâ - in general that is a wolf tell for them, imo
like imagine achromatic self-voting and claiming âok kill me nowâ. do you townread him (exaggeration, litten isnât self-voting. im trying to illustrate a point)
See, there again I disagree, both in the concept of a leader being a fixed archetype as well as in kyubey necessarily leading zone/pandora wagons yes he led the final zone CFD, pandora was more of a collective thing in the end. I think it tends to be that town leaders tend to end up in situations that preclude being okay with dying, but this to me does not seem to be one of them.
Also nyaaaaa going way too off topic but how does somebody becone a town leader archetype in your opinion?
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Iâd need context.
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be loud and assertive and get people to sheep you. quiet players can have incredibly accurate reads but theyâre just not leaders, in the literal sense of the word, if they dont persuade people to follow them. some people are willing to follow everyone, including quiet players, but in general, being loud gives you a larger following. its like marketing. youâre selling a product
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Ok letâs kick this wolf theater up a notch: Do you have good reason to townread chomps/bystander/jaiden
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yeah, but im a bit fatigued. i wanna lay down for a bit. ill answer soon
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wagon bomb 
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Iâm a leader in the sense I can get people to follow me, Iâm terrible at working with others and leading at the same time. You usually see me switch throughout games between working with others and leading
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Voutecount
Kyubey (3): tutuu, Jaiden, Chomps
tutuu (3): Kyubey, Wazza, soweli
Not Voting (1): bystander
oh the account is called June because Ash is July and June is before July!!
sorry everybody iâm going to lock i
This argument doesnât make sense, because tutuu is saying that mafia players have a natural inclination, or rather that they tend to make the choice, to kill people who are wolfreading them (because then there are fewer people in thread who wolfread them!), and thus it makes sense for the people who the nks wolfread to be mafia.
Wazza is denying that their play conforms to that pattern, and so it cannot be used as a heuristic on which to reliably wolfread wazza.
Maybe wazza is wolf and those nks aligned with other priorities, maybe wazza wanted to pull the WIFOM argument, the only real way to keep your previous stance here is to say that this game uniquely presents wazza with particular threats to the point that wazza needs to nk leafia & rue. and like. really? Say what you will about what the future might hold but at the time that Leafia & Rue died their wolfreads ended at âreminds me of more than a year old meta in ways I canât explain (disputed by me & wazza)â and âI donât townread wazza but do townread pandora so i will vote wazzaâ. Neither of those is particularly strong.
Not really sure how i can tie this into alignment at the moment (especially since this isnât entirely out of my idea of bys townrange) but it seems obvious to me that conclusions are not the only or even most important thing in the game like even if kyubey is talking about accuracy.
What else is there with bystander
these posts look bad but also thereâs little reason for w!bystander to make them when v!pandora dying at some point is practically a forgone conclusion save exactly being partnered with wazza
This readlist was cancelled but also having (2/3/4) (From bystanderâs point of view/ from my point of view confirmed from my point of view) in the bottom half is a bad look. Iâm using it because bystander doesnât have other readlists. I suppose with that being said Rue being the NK doesnât make sense but thatâs just a NKA does things.
All in all⌠I canât practically say I want to see more from bystander can I? I want to see fewer bad wolfreads on bystander & presumably this EoD as designed to put her in the âhot seatâ so to speak will reveal slightly more. I certainly see the tutuu/bystander world. Bystanderâs later day play seems quite different from her earlier play though again itâs hard to pinpoint why without a good sense of her meta
The other thing thatâs been eating away at me is that Chomps has barely been talking at all but especially as if Iâm lockwolf from his perspective like I can technically see me being PoEâd by bystander here, other peopleâs reads on me often feel incredibly arbitrary but Chomps doesnât seem to be playing with âsoweliâs really wolfyâ in mind.
wtf did you mean by this btw I donât see it
>in my PoE
>looks inside
>soweli (& pandora)
Thereâs also such factors as: why doesnât say, me/kyubey kill you here if you are onto litten (ok that oneâs cheap i shouldnât be using NKA)
also a huge black box not to mention a very bad look in w!tutuu worlds
Jaiden is reasonableposting which really shouldnât be enough for a townread but in context I think itâs fine? Itâs kind of difficult to lock that in especially if kyubey is a wolf