meow i can’t believe we both were not masons again
one day it’ll come
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well i was despairing sunday but yeah i think i would have been a lot more behind than i was
next combinatorics trust
well if we’re both town next combinatorics, I’ll fake mason cover with you if you’re towny enough
oh god now we have to figure out another game
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this is incredible because I don’t remember it anymore (I have a vague idea, but not the exact formatting)
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it took 2 tries tbf
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yeah I get where you are coming form and seeing how it affected reads in hindsight i can understand why you’d be annoyed by it. the freckles alting was genuinely not intended to create any strategic advantages or OGI and yk I don’t get involved with stuff like that, it was just something me and her thought would be funny to do as a bit for this game.
i didn’t consider the implications people could make based on the alt and how they could start using ogi to deduce my role/alignment, or that the masons would read into it and affect their reads as a collective, that’s obviously information that shouldn’t have existed or been hinted at in the game tho i can take responsibility for creating that situation.
also i never strategically outed during the game for a read advantage, that would be cringe, i planned to out at some point during D1 hence why I abruptly stopped the freckles-esque posting but forgot about the game for over 24h.
anyways i agree the end result of the alting created issues regardless of intent, and if people manage to derive OGI from it then I understand the criticism of allowing complete alts with no restrictions as well.
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im always towny to you :)
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gummy when you were saying that you were sus of how easily I townread you, I felt the need to clear my name and say it wasn’t tmi, but I formed that thought ORGANICALLY d1 thank you very much
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I don’t like making people out their alts to me
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It means integrity issues if I ever play w/ them again
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Then what about you, what would you told me?
again i dont know what you want me to say
i dont have advice if thats what youre looking for?
gj on finding freckels town
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Yeah I suppose the advice to improve town play.
I’m sorry but this started from D2 when you said that I shouldn’t interact with you because I won’t be able to change your mind, that’s what was so frustrating about trying to communicate with you, because you were never willing to have a proper discussion to where I could be town.
i was until you kept insulting me, it made me not want to interact with you, and i explained that multiple times
I don’t think you were and you knew how frustrated I was this game when I tried getting through to you, either way I don’t want a back and forth so I’m stopping it here.
a bunch of salt i wrote at the start of day 2 while i was sure we were going to lose, i have updated it to be relevant (i was genuinely already saying stuff like "we lost bc of x" LMAO". if i didn't post them just because i won then i'd be a hypocrite so yea
if i’m being honest this setup was …really rough to wolf in, at least for me specifically. like if this game played out as a normal game i would have been able to bus ash and kill the people who wolfread me, it might still have been close but i could have gotten away with it, and autumnseas prolly could have lived for a while too. however, in this game it felt like the only way to stop town winning is to get put into the day 1 group of 3 or get lucky with the masons (note: it is very apparent that we would have lost had we not guessed the masons on night 2), but for me the former was pretty difficult because people are naturally too scared of wolf me to risk doing that. additionally, in a normal game i don’t need to be townread, i just need to get town to kill villagers and not me, which i’m pretty good at doing. but because of my reputation i felt like i had very little agency in this game, it doesn’t seem like there are many options for the wolves except to be townread enough to get sent on day 1 which like, for me i said why that’s prolly not gonna happen, so it’d have to be my teammates but if they don’t get townread either then there’s not really any way we can twist it around to our advantage. i couldn’t just be like “you guys have to send ash or autumnseas NOW” and expect to get taken seriously. it’s not inherently a bad thing that wolves actually have to play as a team like town does in any normal game, but it does affect the dynamics of the game a bit if someone falls behind, a lot more than one town player falling behind since bussing isn’t an advantageous option
i know this might sound like copium because if no wolves are townread then it should be fair game, but in a normal game you can still get around that by bussing or distancing - or just by not being killed. this is what allows for a game to be compelling even if the wolves are obvious to a lot of players at the start. but in this setup you don’t get any reward for bussing, nor can you “townside” by supporting a 0/3 vote on day 1 because if those 3 villagers contain 0 masons then on the final day town already only has to choose between 6 people narrowed down even further by ~2 more days of votes which is just not tenable. which is another issue i had because the game feels too… binary to be super compelling? like you can’t really come up with different narratives to explain people’s behaviour because of the nature of the setup - wolves are forced to push for 1/3 groups or they will get boxed in on later days. if someone earnestly pushes for a 0/3 vote then they have to be a villager or they are essentially gamethrowing
ok that last part is maybe not true i guess, since people did end up making reads that wolves would push a 0/3, but like. i really don’t think that’s true lmao, or based in the reality of how these games have gone - all of us tried to push for a 1/3 or a 2/3 on day 1 (if it was obvious that only 1 of us would get in that 2 anyway) before we had to accept a 0/3 reluctantly. there isn’t any world where wolves will want that outcome from the start.
i understand that the setup is balanced such that town get 1 extra day than wolves to get their solve, as compensation wolves have 3 less people to guess between but like… honestly? there are a lot of lobbies where the first thing is just better to have. for instance town can have several polarized players who get townread the whole game so their pool for guessing wolves in is automatically reduced and on an equal playing field to wolves having to guess the masons. there isn’t a polarization equivalent for masons unless someone manages to slip as a mason but like, i don’t think that’s very likely as long as people understand the setup. or they try and manipulate the dayplay to be as advantageous to town as possible, which comes at the price of making them more obvious. it is also just probably easier to read for wolves than masons, but i did completely just make this statement up so who knows.
i feel like a lot of this stuff that i wrote seems discredited because we guessed the masons, but like. i think this is an isolated case where they tried to make a play that most people wouldn’t, and had they hidden for longer, let’s say town gets a 2/3 with freckles instead of tommy on day 2 - that’s still almost gamewinning information, and they would have gotten another 2 or even 3 days depending on how well they did compared to the 1 they actually got which wasn’t quite enough for town. they also would have been alive to push for me. because town are rewarded regardless of what they vote on day 1, really if all the masons do is hide for long enough then town will coast to victory. wolves are the ones that have to play aggressively with their guesses because the endgame only begins once they correctly guess the masons, and they cannot win before then
anyway you can take everything i said with a pinch of salt
footnote: fwiw i’m not actually convinced the setup is unbalanced just that it’s really painful to wolf in, because town get such a lead from a 0/3 on day 1 that you are forced to try and prevent it which is difficult to do if you are considered to be a scary wolf and also (i would guess) makes the game kinda boring to solve since people’s motivations are a lot more black and white, which is also extremely difficult to refute and play around as a wolf. but at the end of the day in this iteration our social game was pretty terrible, so i can only complain so much
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im not gonna post game argue
i couldve played better, for sure
you can choose to believe that, it doesnt matter to me, i just hope the lesson you learn is that maybe if you want to convince someone dont shit talk them constantly