Library of Ruina FM - Day 3 - Mafia Wins

[Frostwolf103]

I can believe that, feels like Leafia thing to do that.

[Zone_Q11]

@tutuu

For Jarek:

I think him putting his foot down at numerous occassions is very towny:

• casing Leafia D1 and not giving up
• voting me SoD2 despite my status
• demanding gummy to claim her role and results if any
• declaring the game state to be stale, and starting a wagon on EggYolk

• I am missing context for D1.
• In P#2926, Jarek voted you because he found your N1 claim suspicious, and he was “not married to the idea” to begin with.
• I do not recall gummy claiming her role, and I do not see how this demand is Town-indicative.
• “Starting the wagon on EggYolk due to the gamestate’s staleness” seems to be the only point I can agree with as to why I should townread Jarek.

---

@tutuu

For Gummy:

• Her reaction to her being top suspect was just something very pure, […]
• She is posting well. She is solving well. She is casing people, interacting with people. I do feel like her actual content got overlooked a bit. She recovered very well, and she came back solving hard. I find her logic very agreeable. IMO she found 3/3 wolves in her solve when she came back to solving

• I (can) find Town by reading the measure of their suffering. What I felt from gummy when reading her posts after you pointed out her fumble was [distress] and [defeatism]. She was [fragile], however she did not exactly [suffer]. (At least, I cannot feel it.)
  
  You (tutuu) suffered, because despite having multiple players get angry at you, you kept on re-evaluating and updating your reads-list.
  
  gummy chose “the easy way out”; [admitting defeat], [craving death]. If she’s Town, then her action is something I do not perceive as towny, because Mafia can do the exact same thing, as mentioned in P#3344.
  
  I regret to inform you that I lack both (1) the memory of my past games with gummy and (2) the heart to empathize with people “normally”, so I (personally) don’t know how reliable your personality-read on gummy is.
• Yeah, I did see her recovering from her mental breakdown and giving her reads-list before she got exhausted. I can see why this is towny, but I uh… I am greedy, I suppose. I still want to see more of her. (Because she has yet to case me.)

[Wazza]

@Zone_Q11

Who would Redi-2 protect if they failed their ability? Wazza or Wazza’s target?

I’m 99% positive I already specified, it states the redirect fails, and the person I was attempted to be redirected to is protected

[Wazza]

So it wouldn’t be whoever I would’ve chosen to visit, it would be whoever they attempted to make me visit

[Zone_Q11]

@Leafia

@Zone_Q11

@Leafia, what reads of EggYolk do you feel to be faked?

Neatly all of them. I can’t remember specific ones.

Well in that case I would like for you to re-evaluate EggYolk until you find all of those reads, because I can’t work with answers like these. I can’t work with “I scumread X because X’s reads feels fake, but I can’t tell you which reads I am talking about or why they feel fake”.

@Frostwolf103

That is why I am asking him who he got redirected to

He does not know.

@Frostwolf103

he randomly voted Gummy ar SoD2 rather than the result of it?

Correct, as he had already mentioned:

@tutuu

I didn’t say I got redirected to you; I’m voting you because you’re in my PoE. I’m townreading a lot of people.

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@Frostwolf103

I am guessing Leafia is bound to protect Achro all game?

I don’t know, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to discuss the details of Leafia’s role.

@Frostwolf103

…thats not a smart way to proclaim as protective role Day 1

…I will neither agree nor disagree with your statement, but I have hereby seen your statement.

[Zone_Q11]

@Frostwolf103

Yeah no

@Frostwolf103

Nothing is proved right now

The claims themselves are the proofs.
They are not absolute proofs (they are like… conditional proofs?), but this is what we have to work with unless you want to abandon mech and focus solely on socials.

@Frostwolf103

I am not fully convinced with the whole core either

Why didnt Tutuu include Spirit for instance?

I also don’t see you or Sultan, so I assume it’s because he’s less confident in putting the three of you in his towncore? –rather, why are you asking this to me instead of @tutuu?

@snow

I in fact did not

I pinged you as a forewarning; not as an inquiry.
I am talking about N2; not N1.

[FreezinIce]

Not sure if this gets answered definitively later but I could see tutuu being an alignment cop, at the start he was very focused on getting a good poe and at the same time locking in townreads which reads to me like hes trying to create a good copping list, to the detriment of early socials.

Then once he got pinged about it he softened his stance and tried to blend in more aka tried to drop into poe so he wouldnt be interfered with at night for being obv town

Also minorly explains why he wasnt that pressed about the votes he got midday because its sort of what he wanted and he had a claim to fall back on but thats kind of a stretchy behavioral read

[FreezinIce]

I am verrry slowly progressing in my catchup. Time to take a break as a treat

@iamagummybear where you at!

[Zone_Q11]

@Frostwolf103

Leafia claiming TP and has chosen Achro as loyal target, then get redirected by mafia losing the ability

My memory might be poor, but I do not recall Leafia mentioning anything about loyalty.

Rather, from what I understand… she was redirected to a Mafia member, so [whatever side-effects were supposed to be placed on Achro] are now placed on a Mafia member?

@Frostwolf103

Gummy may or may not has successful green check despite being weak investigator, Snow is not recognised

I don’t know what you mean by this. I do not recall gummy revealing any information regarding her role, but she did confirm that snow’s statement of “snow knows the type of gummy’s role” is correct.

@Frostwolf103

Tutuu is the first to break away from Spirit’s wagon with weak reasoning behind this

tutuu already explained how he found P#2121 to be enough of a reason to unvote Spirit. If you still don’t like that, then I can’t do anything about it. You are free to have your own opinions.

@Frostwolf103

I don’t know about redirections other than the feedback known,

…? What do you mean by this?

@Frostwolf103

I am with Sultan why it doesnt tell what new target is redirected

Ask the hosts about this matter.

• If Investigatives get redirected, then they will be informed they got redirected, but not to whom.
• Non-Investigatives simply do not get feedback if they were to be blocked or redirected.

@Frostwolf103

Jarek is counterwagon to Leafia before Spirit takes form, I am going to be honest, not a strong impression of being town.

…does Jarek not give a strong impression of being Town solely because he was a counterwagon, or is there another personal reason as to why he isn’t giving off strong Town impressions?

@Frostwolf103

Ace duplicates a redirection from action against Leafia and Tutuu is also redirected?

Correct. To reiterate:

@Zone_Q11

X is a Redirector.
Leafia got redirected by X to Y.
ACE targets Leafia and copies X’s ability.
ACE redirects tutuu to Y.

These are the actions ACE claimed to have done at N1. Have you read her other posts? Do you have any other (social) reasons as to why she shouldn’t be in towncore?

[Zone_Q11]

@Frostwolf103

That didn’t connect the dots?

I do not understand what you are asking, but none of us know who Y is. Players -even Investigatives- do not get informed who they are redirected to. (They just get informed that they were redirected.)

@FreezinIce

Maj at 8 btw

*shakes head in disappointment*
(We I do not fear Majority.)

@Frostwolf103

It feels incoherent on role balance

*looks at my own games*
Nah. Sounds like par for the course, actually.

@Frostwolf103

we got action copying, redirector and someone that requires to be redirected?

ACE’s action copy
X redirecting Leafia to Y
Redi-2 targeting Wazza

Yep. These are the claims that we have to work with.

@Frostwolf103

Isnt that tied with Ace?

…? Whatever you were thinking of, it’s probably incorrect. If ACE lied about her action, then we would have even more unaccounted redirections happening on N1.

@FreezinIce

There is nothing in the game that we know now that suggests wolves get new key pages when we burn books. The only thing that points to the is Ruina metaknowledge but thats kind of a stretch

What made you believe this is the case?

I pointed this out in P#3666 as well. He replied in P#3682:

@EggYolk

@Zone_Q11

I don’t recall anything about “burn Unstable Book → give Mafia more Key Pages” though. It was stated literally nowhere that such is the case.

Huh I swear someone said it at one point? I guess I was mistaken.

[Zone_Q11]

@Wazza

I’m 99% positive I already specified, it states the redirect fails, and the person I was attempted to be redirected to is protected

@Wazza

So it wouldn’t be whoever I would’ve chosen to visit, it would be whoever they attempted to make me visit

1. If you did specify it, then I did not find it.
2. Aha. So it is like this:

Designate two players as [A] and [B]. Redirect [A] to [B]. If [A] holsters or if you targeted [A] on the previous night, then the redirection fails, and [B] gets protected instead.

…yeah, that sounds like something that could come from a Town. (Though technically it is NAI.)

[FreezinIce]

Re the last point, that is deflection. Egg mentioned key pages yesterday and was the first one to do so

Library of Ruina FM - Day 2 (15/17)

Shit. I have just figured out that wolves indeed have gotten something known as a “Key Page”… (It is in My Passives)

He needs to be pressed about this. This is the 2nd time hes mentioned a mechanic nobody else has mentioned before it became public knowledge

[FreezinIce]

This one is even more egregious because its a wolf mechanic that we only learned about by burning the Book of the Library.

Its possible he could be town with info about wolf passives and stuff but combined with his light presence today (from what ive read so far on catchup) and almost no solving it makes me suspicious

[Zone_Q11]

Huh. I only learned that Mafia have Key Pages after I asked the hosts at D2; after the Book of Library was burned.

Uh. Yeah. EggYolk needs to talk about this.

[Zone_Q11]

@FreezinIce

almost no solving it

I think everybody except you missed it.

[FreezinIce]

sorry that was a mistype, i meant to say egg did no solving. I havnt finished my catchup but even having just read the thread i cant remember a single person he has pushed today.

My read on egg yesterday was i was giving him a daypass and he needed to solve today and explain the weird stuff he kept hinting at mechanicswise

well neither has happened and its time to pay the piper.

[FreezinIce]

This is a borderline too simple wolfread, normally it would read to me “weird stuff = bad” and id discard it but its just like…consistent. Dunno if that makes sense but thats how it feels. It feels like we arnt working towards the same thing

[FreezinIce]

Or he like doesnt care about who the wolves are

[FreezinIce]

Im tired, i probably need to sleep like now if i want a chance of waking up before EOD.

Sorry i couldnt finish catchup and make solid reads list. Based on what I have now it would look something like:

Leafia - Good mech, good socials, good solving. good like everything
Zone_Q11 - Just clearly towny now and solving
tutuu
ACE - From my brief impressions has the best looking mech next to leafia
Jarek - Made a post that i dont really ever see a wolf making and was similar to the helpful posts i made to tutuu over the course of the game. Tone is a lot better at start of D2 from what i read

Spiritualized - this is a hard achro sheep i cant see anything compelling about this slot
Rue - Not really sure how to sort. Doesnt read very bothered by anything happening to her and i still like her reaction to d1 pressure

Frostwolf103 - Not really sure where to go, has some posts that i like and posts that makes me go ???. solving at least so probably should be higher
SultanOfSlam - Has a lot of weird stuff around the wagons when i was going back and reading EOD. Mini sheeping Rue here because what she said kind of rings true.

iamagummybear - Actually null. I havnt even read whatever ATE she was doing that caused people to townread her so im taking a raincheck here
snow - dont remember anything re this slot

Wazza - Down here by poe pretty much, i liked some stuff i saw today but I just dont vibe here tbh hard to put into words
Chomps - doesnt feel towny wow what a read
EggYolk - already elaborated

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Keep in mind this is missing like 500 posts from around 2.8k - 3.3 or so. If these reads seem to be hedgy or underwhelming its because i read people talking about certain slots later and it influenced my reads in a weird way since i didnt read the source only the aftermath. I figured its better than nothing since theres a non zero chance i sleep through EOD despite my best efforts

Speaking of that. Do not Doctor or protect me at all from now on

For the rest of my short life I cant be doctored, I literally start dying over the course of the next few days, the first sign is I cant be doctored, tomorrow ill have another fun debuff, then ill die off. Dunno what the point of my role is, doesnt seem worth it at all just to mess with votes a bit and some other minor utility but w/e. At least my slot will be flipping soon

[Frostwolf103]

@Zone_Q11

My memory might be poor, but I do not recall Leafia mentioning anything about loyalty.

The reference is in Starcraft Overhaul