Netrunner Mafia - Game Over: Mala Tempora

[Arctic]

@Vulgard

@Arctic

honestly this list doesn’t really have me worried about wolves controlling the game (except for you, maybe), i’m more worried about us just killing ourselves again given i expect there to be quite a lot of slanking this game

Fair enough. I feel like you’re a wolf for taking such a diplomatic and withdrawn approach here while acknowledging the potential slanking, but I don’t want to repeat the patho wrongpush if you’re town, so for now I’m going to give you space and see how you act. It’s objectively a normal observation, I just don’t feel great about you making it here with what seems like a fairly dismissive attitude despite what you’re saying.

Meh, it’s probably nothing.

@Arctic

i’m leaning town on ashlyn (this is a pocket attempt)

I don’t feel great about the comment in parentheses, but I am also not convinced I should be feeling bad about it, lol.

not sure why you think either of these things are wolfy - it was like 20 posts into the game and my concern is natural given what happened last game in a similar playerlist. i don’t know how i’m supposed to be massively interested in this when the game hasn’t reached a point where i have to be worried about either people powerwolfing or us killing ourselves. it also cost me nothing to not add the part in parentheses as a wolf.

one day though, one day
i think your initial read on me is reaching inverted levels of accuracy at this point

[Arctic]

@NinjaPenguin

@Kanave

okay crazy thought bc its barely even game related but i don’t like this defensiveness

What about the post makes you read it as defensive?

@Arctic

ashlyn (this is a pocket attempt) because i think she seemed genuinely happy to be in the thread

VOTE: Arctic
I think I’m using the feature correctly this time

i feel like it was kind of obvious why that post was defensive and didn’t really need explaining, so this kind of feels like they are posting for the sake of it rather than asking a question they’re genuinely interested in. i can’t tell if this vote on me is a meme or not but if it isn’t then i’m also kinda questioning why, because the post they chose to vote me for feels like the kind of post that wolves think looks surface level wolfy and can get away with throwing down a vote, but a villager would realize that the post isn’t actually wolfy? again it could just be a meme, but if it’s not then i don’t like it

[Arctic]

@Vulgard

Rn I feel more strongly about Arctic being a wolf but I also think that has a greater chance of being wrong (because I’m more convinced) and so I’m chasing something less certain.

Get used to that from me, it’s how my hunting works.

there’s a small chance this is borne from TMI but i kind of want to say this roundabout approach from vulgard is towny when you consider his past read history of me being confidently wrong at the start of the game multiple times. i’m certainly biased just because i appreciate the gesture after he’s wrong on me yet again but meh, if this was the approach he was gonna take as a wolf i think brandishing around the wolfread on me while doing nothing with it is kind of pointless.

@Kanave

I have already posted more than i did d1 of Pathological

@Vulgard

Wait, hold on.

Eliza interprets an evident joke from Kanave as a wolfread and calls the “read” made up. Squirrel apparently also thinks the post Kanave made was made up (??) and asks Eliza if Kanave making up reads is wolfy (???). Eliza says yes, because obviously making up reads is all the wolves do, and right now you two are… surprised??

There’s some massive miscommunication right here.

eliza’s “this read also feels made up” is referring to the quote she used below it, the one on dum, but squirrel quoted it with the post where kanave votes caspore which is where the confusion came from

@Vulgard

Like, you didn’t actually read the posts in context and yet you’re sussing each other over it.

This feels V/V/V but I feel slightly hesitant to call it out as such because it’s so stupid. But it’s so stupid that it really does feel V/V/V.

I guess the most likely person to be a wolf here would be Eliza for misinterpreting in the first place, but this seems like a dumb and giant misunderstanding to me, to the point that people misunderstanding seem like villagers - for seemingly not being malicious and because they are genuinely making this more confusing than it needs to be.

clearing people for this seems silly on principle to me but i’ve seen you make a similarly structured read as town before so i’ll let it slide

[Arctic]

my first thoughts on eliza’s shitpush on kanave were a combination of “eliza putting this much effort to scumcase someone this early feels >rand wolf for her” but also “she would probably choose better things to make a shitpush on someone as a wolf if this were the case”. but i guess both of these are invalid since we got the good ol’ “it was an RT” Moment and i… don’t really believe it, though i don’t think i’m going to pursue this because it’s more or less a coin toss. i guess i could reach to say that because the reasons were so bad (one of my initial thoughts) it may lend credence to the post always being an RT, but that’s wifom so. in conclusion i’m good at waffling.

@NinjaPenguin

Are people thinking that scum Eliza is trying to backpedal on a bad vote she got caught on? And if so why are you thinking this lmao it’s very easy to just say the vote is a joke as scum

that’s… kind of what she did though lol? although it was “RT” instead of “joke” but either one still concedes that the post/vote in question was fake. i don’t think she could just say it was a joke in this case because like… it clearly wasn’t if you read the post again. she either had to double down or call it an RT, so from your logic i’d still kind of expect you to wolfread her, since claiming to RT was the next easiest way of backing out after claiming to be joking.

@Flygon

@Vulgard

Rn I feel more strongly about Arctic being a wolf but I also think that has a greater chance of being wrong (because I’m more convinced) and so I’m chasing something less certain.

I wouldn’t obsess over the read on the player itself.
If Arctic is a wolf I’m sure there will be more clear tells of it later on in the game or perhaps even the remainder of this day phase.

@Flygon what was the point of posting this?

@NinjaPenguin

WAIT I THOUGHT IT WAS ELIZA WHO MADE THE JOKE VOTE ON CASPORE
Everything has changed brb rereading the thread

-oh okay well that makes a bit more sense.

honestly i’m kind of concerned about how much of the thread has revolved around eliza yet i still don’t have a concrete read on her. some of these posts are going straight over my head

[Flygon]

@Arctic

what was the point of posting this?

From the way I’ve read what Vulgard stated, it appeared he didn’t want to be bothered trying to solve your slot and doesn’t want to push you cause if you flip town it would be a big loss.
Which is understandable sure but as you can see in the post there I addressed if your a wolf it should become more clear so Vulgard just needs to keep an eye out on the posts you make rather then stressing about wolf reading you and being afraid you will flip town.

@Shending_Help

You talk big for an oversized housefly ^_^

Lookin forward to it

I do as much as I can! ^_^

@Shending_Help

Is oversized housefly still acceptable? ^_^

I’ll allow it.

@Vulgard

I’ve only seen Kanave be a wolf once, but I caught her on a bunch of stuff in that game that I don’t think she’s been exhibiting here. I’m not completely confident but I feel decent enough about her not to d1 her atm.

I kinda feel the same here.
I wouldn’t eliminate her today.

@Vulgard

@Shending_Help

This makes me curious, was your early Flygon read made-up too? (Since you were expecting most reads to be made up at that point)

This seems villagery.

Eh I’m not completely sure on that one.
Issue is, Eliza stated the fake read stuff before voting me and they haven’t took their vote off of me.

@Shending_Help

Do you think Eliza is a wolf? It feels like youre attacking her points without trying to figure out her alignment. Am i completely off base, or have you already locked her in as a wolf in your head?

I haven’t locked anyone in as a wolf.
I just haven’t liked Eliza’s post thus far and find some of it wolfy.

Also if you think I’m not trying to figure out her alignment then why did I bother asking her questions?

@Shending_Help

Mmm i believe Eliza is truly struggling to find the right words for a real thought

Which i guess means i think shes town

Could you elaborate more on this please!
I don’t understand how the former means town indicative.

@Shending_Help

but i also feel like your post is made more to get a point across (and win the support of others) than to get more info on her

Apologizes if it looked that way but I was trying to resolve the “fake read” claim Eliza made.

@Dum

@Shending_Help

Maybe im reaching tho… ok im off for many hours

i dont think you are reaching too much to be honest. Obviously im not about to come out and say “no no, thats lock wolf”, but i think your logic is grounded enough to not be discarded

@Dum can you tell me in your own words how you feel or felt towards my interaction with Eliza there?
I would like your own input on it please.

Flygon Flygon

[Arctic]

@Shending_Help

Before ppl jump at me asking me to defend why i like/agree with her Logic of the read, i dont (i dont even commpletely understand it). So how can i still like the post? I like the tone of it + her comment about it being almost not gamerelated. It smells so much like an out-of-the-box town-reach, and not a contrieved wolf reason (wolf early game reads usually makes some kind of sense on some level but doesnt make sense in context or some such)

i agree with what shending is saying re: kanave’s post on dum, since i also thought that it wasn’t the sort of reach a wolf tries to go for since it was barely even game-related
but (sorry if you’re town lmao) this sort of thing feels like what a wolf would point out and focus a lot on rather than a villager

i don’t think shending’s posts are overall bad but this post kind of fits the bill of early over-explained TMI’ey post about a villager

@Shending_Help

Im a little bit surprised 2 people’s reactions to Eliza’s (lol)-reactiontest was that it looked like a backpedaling wolf. Eliza was clearly (at least to me) being knowingly obtrusive for a long while in a way that doesnt really make sense from a panicing wolf angle. (She can still be a wolf, but not for that reason imo)

i do think this is a good point, eliza’s posts didn’t really look like she felt she was being backed into a corner? it’s possible she just genuinely didn’t think she was being caught as a wolf, but i feel like this is the less likely explanation than her just simply not caring because she’s town

okay well anyway i read the rest of shending’s posts and i’m thinking he’s probably town
he’s a good wolf though so maybe i shouldn’t be
oh well

[Dum]

@Flygon

can you tell me in your own words how you feel or felt towards my interaction with Eliza there?
I would like your own input on it please.

i think you misscaracterized what eliza was doing as an acussation with malicious intent from their part, which wasan’t what they did from my point of view. What i

[Dum]

*what i im not sure about is if you did it with malicious intent yourself or not

[Dum]

jesus how did i fuck up that ending so badly

[Arctic]

@Flygon

@Arctic

what was the point of posting this?

From the way I’ve read what Vulgard stated, it appeared he didn’t want to be bothered trying to solve your slot and doesn’t want to push you cause if you flip town it would be a big loss.
Which is understandable sure but as you can see in the post there I addressed if your a wolf it should become more clear so Vulgard just needs to keep an eye out on the posts you make rather then stressing about wolf reading you and being afraid you will flip town.

okay, that’s understandable i guess. i asked this because the post at the time kinda pinged me as a weird hands-off treatment of my slot framed around the basis of you knowing that me and vulgard were villagers and that vulgard would eventually talk himself out of his scumread on me, but this makes sense.

@Flygon

@Shending_Help

Mmm i believe Eliza is truly struggling to find the right words for a real thought

Which i guess means i think shes town

Could you elaborate more on this please!
I don’t understand how the former means town indicative.

i know this isn’t directed to me but i’m going to comment on it anyway because i thought the post from shending was towny (and i also agreed with it). i think what he’s trying to get at is that usually villagers can’t always put their thoughts into proper words which is an indication that their thought is actually a real process going on behind the scenes which they are mulling over, compared to a wolf whose “thoughts” will come in the form of a clear narrative ready to be posted/explained in a way that makes sense. i can relate to this myself because i don’t think i’ve ever had trouble explaining a “read” as a wolf, and i waffle with my explanations a lot more as town.

[Arctic]

dum, your last content-related post (until now) was at post 85 but your recent posts kind of imply you’ve been reading/processing what’s been going on. is there a reason why you only commented after only being prompted?

[Flygon]

@Arctic

early over-explained TMI’ey post about a villager

Gonna have to Mindmelt a bit with you here.
I do get TMI vibes from them, so that’s why I requested them to elaborate more on their Eliza Townread.

I could just be voting a Villager and Shedning could be a wolf that is trying to look good off of it and potentially even pocket the villager.

I suppose it’s also possible for both to be wolves but I think the former is allot more likely.

@Arctic

eliza’s posts didn’t really look like she felt she was being backed into a corner?

I don’t think it was that exactly that concerns me,
It’s basically how that one person put it:

@Caspore

correct me if I’m wrong but I think it’s like this:

-Kanave made a fake read
-you note they made a fake read
-you are asked to explain that
-you defend yourself by saying you yourself made a fake read

but now you’re saying fake reads are indicative of suspicion, which would then make you a target as well

Plus their vote on me felt like “Kanave isn’t working out, let me try and push someone else”.

Flygon Flygon

@Dum

an acussation with malicious intent

Again it’s more like “post seems made up” is one solo accusation.
Could just be a grammar difference between me and Eliza but I don’t really like how they call it a “fake read” when the only thing I remember them talking about Kanave was the made up posts they accused them of.
I was one to even defend Kanave and explain how I disagree with Eliza.
@ElizaThePsycho considering your vote on me did you not like my reaction to your reaction test?

Flygon

[Flygon]

@Arctic

villagers can’t always put their thoughts into proper words

Mhm.
That’s why I said it is probably just a grammar issue between me and Eliza.
That isn’t the issue on why I’m voting them it was just something that pinged me.

Flygon

[Flygon]

Another reason why I don’t consider it a read read, is cause they never actually voted Kanave but just accused them of making a fabricated post but provided no explanation on it, nor did she say they wolf read her but rather just didn’t like the post.

Flygon

[Arctic]

yeah ultimately i can’t get much of a lean one way or another with eliza, because every time i think i find something that points one way i come up with an explanation for the exact same thing coming from the other alignment. kind of disappointed she didn’t really give much analysis from her “RT” but i guess her post about you technically counts? i think her voting you can be explained by the fact that her push on kanave was never real if it was in fact an RT. either way, i don’t think hard logical discrepancies like what guava/caspore pointed are a reliable indicator of alignment because loltownhypocrisy, so i’m struggling to read into all of that. i guess i kind of feel like i am doing what vulgard is doing with deciding to sheep someone on eliza because he can’t read her very well, but he chose guava and i chose shending lol.

@Flygon

Another reason why I don’t consider it a read read, is cause they never actually voted Kanave but just accused them of making a fabricated post but provided no explanation on it, nor did she say they wolf read her but rather just didn’t like the post.

i mean it… wasn’t a real read, she’s claiming it was an RT. that’s the whole point here lol.

[NinjaPenguin]

@Shending_Help

Im a little bit surprised 2 people’s reactions to Eliza’s (lol)-reactiontest was that it looked like a backpedaling wolf. Eliza was clearly (at least to me) being knowingly obtrusive for a long while in a way that doesnt really make sense from a panicing wolf angle. (She can still be a wolf, but not for that reason imo)

Remind me to comment on this at some point

@Arctic

i feel like it was kind of obvious why that post was defensive and didn’t really need explaining, so this kind of feels like they are posting for the sake of it rather than asking a question they’re genuinely interested in. i can’t tell if this vote on me is a meme or not but if it isn’t then i’m also kinda questioning why, because the post they chose to vote me for feels like the kind of post that wolves think looks surface level wolfy and can get away with throwing down a vote, but a villager would realize that the post isn’t actually wolfy? again it could just be a meme, but if it’s not then i don’t like it

That post wasn’t defensive but yours sure is haha
Your natural tone is interrupted by a parenthetical that reads as wolf overediting

@Dum

i think you misscaracterized what eliza was doing as an acussation with malicious intent from their part, which wasan’t what they did from my point of view.

What do you mean your point of view?

[Arctic]

anyway, need to go get food but i’m gonna consolidate my thoughts on people who i’m leaning scum on.

ninja - kind of already explained. lots of questions that don’t go anywhere or seem useless, especially them asking kanave repeatedly what felt defensive about dum’s post… i for one felt like it was obvious what felt defensive but the more relevant point is that i don’t buy they would actually care about this enough to ask like three times for an explanation, especially because they didn’t even end up giving a read on kanave. in fact they haven’t given like… any reads, except for on eliza? and their content on eliza doesn’t really swing me either way (especially since it’s hard to read into since most of it is predicated on eliza making a post that was actually made by kanave).

i could be entirely wrong on this because i am susceptible to wolfreading this sort of playstyle but i maintain that it hasn’t been villagery when a lot of other people have been.

dum - kind of ties into one of my recent posts, i think his response to flygon about the flygon/eliza interaction implies that he’s been processing/reading the game which, given that he hadn’t made any relevant content since post 85, is a slight concern. dum is usually a lot louder and more involved than how i’ve seen him play so far, usually poking and prodding people about everything. if he’s town, this is probably because there’s a postcap (he did say knowing that there’s a postcap killed his will to play) but even then, i don’t think that excuses the extent to which his iso is lacking.

i’m not confident on either of these, in fact after reading dum’s posts i feel like i may be wrong on him and he’s just disinterested because of the postcap… oh well

[Arctic]

@NinjaPenguin

That post wasn’t defensive but yours sure is haha

i feel like my post there was more focused on offence than defence

@NinjaPenguin

Your natural tone is interrupted by a parenthetical that reads as wolf overediting

yeah, this is valid. it’s not wolfy for me though. i hedge a lot more as town and consider many viewpoints - i just play the game by trying to figure out which explanation is the most likely in each instance, and this is one of the main reasons people who don’t know me incorrectly wolfread me. my reads are a lot more linear as a wolf, you can fact check this quite easily if you wanted to.

[NinjaPenguin]

I think you’ve caught onto my playstyle v well haha
I should probably elaborate after both you and Vulgard being this way but weh I’d rather keep doing my thing

@Arctic

yeah, this is valid. it’s not wolfy for me though. i hedge a lot more as town and consider many viewpoints - i just play the game by trying to figure out which explanation is the most likely in each instance, and this is one of the main reasons people who don’t know me incorrectly wolfread me. my reads are a lot more linear as a wolf, you can fact check this quite easily if you wanted to.

Are you the kind of person who rereads posts before posting it and/or posts to avoid being scumread as town?

[Dum]

@Arctic

this is probably because there’s a postcap

thats exactly why. My usual playstyle calls for a ton of liner posts that just go “why?” “explain?” etc… which isint viable here