The beatings will continue until townplay improves: Part 2 - The Chessening - Day 3 (7/11)

[carbonated]

Continuing town players:

Pandora

Summary

@pandora

i dont think a wolf sends that meme in response. they either let it lie to slide under the radar or probe to appear like theyre producing content. so im willing to leave ishmael alone

Feels like weak reasoning tbh

@pandora

if votes stay the same here mark me down as responsible for carbonated dying over frost

I don’t like this line. i feel like i’ve mentioned it before somewhere but i forgot where

@pandora

I think Zone/Frost are W/T and I like zone better.

interesting change from the day prior, but towniest backread i’ve ever seen if there was one imo if wolf gj

@pandora

hey ishmael’s posting has been unimpressive

@pandora

VOTE: ap

I don’t understand this sudden flop. i probably also mentioned this somewhere. i feel like i’m repeating myself oops. well that’s why it’s all under a summary tab.

Mistyx

Summary

@Mistyx

VOTE: childe

I dislike votes without justification.

@Mistyx

rolling with all of these and zone town that leaves frost gummy carbo ishy and pen

Mistyx’s POE at #495 (day1)

@Mistyx

will get back to this after class but i feel kinda iffy about some of the takes presented - i don’t think there’s any logical holes just there’s something off about her overall progression to me

will keep disagreeing with this. I probably mentioned this somewhere already but meh at least i’m keeping things in one place.

@Mistyx

childe i reread and think my original positive feelings were justified still

sorry wait where did this come from again?

@Mistyx

that might point to childe because it might have done the thing i do sometimes as a wolf where i think someone looks obviously towny and misparse how thread in general feels on them

I don’t like the childe flip flop here. this was a very fast turnaround.

@Mistyx

• gummy’s townread on jaiden
• gummy’s scumread on me

I don’t think there’s much of a point analyzing gummy’s reads tbh she wasn’t on long enough and didn’t have time to develop them imo (sorry gummy)

@Mistyx

i think my next look there if w is ishmael? jaiden/frost are prob spewed town in that case, same w/ zone but i feel pretty good about him being town regardless

my childe tr is kinda falling off again

and there we go mistyx goes back to saying childe was originally read as town (?)

everything else was from today that i already addressed.

Childe

Summary

@childe

this started when i was asleep
i claim town, all ccs are fake

this opening is okay i guess

@childe

i don’t really understand the many “zone town” posts

Awkward disagreement here.

@childe

Zone V
Bummy W
Ishmael W
Apen W
Frost V
Pandora V
Spooky V
Mistyx V
Jaiden W

Hmm.

@childe

Hi ok I wanna say ummm Spooky?

Maybe this is why spooky got popped. idk. OH DID MISTYX SAY SOMETHING ON THIS okay if that’s the case mistyx/childe is a very interesting combo.

@childe

frost/apen are the main slots i’ve changed my mind on
when it comes to apen I do think they sound genuine in a lot of areas like with the frustration in #735 and #739 but something about their tone, esp early in the game, feels so, neutral? like its all just replies instead of actual big posts and whenever they do make something along the lines of a list it just feels. in the middle. no active attacks. like idk how to explain it atp lol
if i really was about to die I’d still say v but i want to have this in mind

hmmmm.

@childe

carbonated’s been falling off recently imo
hasn’t really changed from what was said in #252

mb sorry i was busy that day and i think it’s not safe to drive and text personally :)

@childe

Um what are your thoughts on Ishmael. idk if i can have a valid read on them since the majority of their posts is them being buzzed apparently

consistency on Ishmael W. The interesting thing is Ishmael has just been… sheer contentless?

Jaiden:

Summary

@Jaiden

/trustfall

I don’t like trustfalling!

@Jaiden

gummy thinks my opening was towny. if you want her to say im scum youll have to wait until middle of day 1 day 2

don’t like this defense

@Jaiden

me
zone
frostwolf
pandora
carbonated
mistyx
childe
ishmael
appenine

t->s

You can’t just drop a readslist and not justify.

@Jaiden

i hope youre not pocketing me because this is hype

Mistyx/Jaiden pairing?

@Jaiden

opens up the day on the offensive when town is one misexe off lylo
when backing off from it pandora mainly defends why thats a reasonable action for her to take (conditioning from her homesite) rather focusing on why its suspicious which to me reads from a not very towny mindset
evades line of questioning to do with frostwolf with another push on what is arguably lhf
it feels like a pretty large shift in pandoras postings which is what confuses me

okay this is a reasonable argument I can come around to this

[carbonated]

After concluding this iso I think one of Mistyx/Childe could maybe be a good execution today.

[carbonated]

Maybe I’m too locked into apennine town but like I genuinely feel that

anyway this was the list I just spent forever ordering, if GTH:

apennine
Jaiden
pandora
Ishmael
Childe
Mistyx

my confidence though maybe i should reread again ugh everyone just feels like towny and off at the same time but more towny than off.

[Mistyx]

@carbonated

everything else was from today that i already addressed.

alright im gonna be difficult

if you think that’s everything ive said this game that’s worth commenting on im not sure we’re reading the same thread

[carbonated]

I meant anything else from that point downwards that I would have flagged a disagreement with

[carbonated]

because after that point it’s mostly just us discussing apennine

[Mistyx]

then why were you looking back through to only comment on things you disagreed with especially because that’s not what you did with everyone else

quite frankly you’re doing the same thing i called pen a wolf for it just doesn’t feel faked

[carbonated]

I don’t see any point in resurfacing things that I addressed in ten posts prior

I’m not sure why you are so insistent on wanting me to re-cite them anyway when they’re one scroll up

[Mistyx]

that’s not what i’m talking about

i have way more content than what you quoted and imo it’s significantly townier than most of it

so why are you just not commenting on any of it

[MagnusCarlsen]

Voutecount

apennine (2): Mistyx, pandora
Ishmael (1): childe

Not Voting (4): Aleph, apennine, Jaiden, carbonated

[carbonated]

if that’s not what you’re talking about I don’t know what you’re talking about

I know you have more content than what you quoted but anyone can be towny. The inconsistencies are what find the mafia not by everyone appearing as town. And given that I found everyone to be relatively towny I am going to find things I disagree with and work with them. And this pattern isn’t exclusive to you. Please open the other tabs and tell me that I didn’t discuss things I disagreed with them on.

This isn’t about oh I think you’re lock mafia just because I came up with my own opinions. I just think everyone is decently towny but I need to find the non-towny fragnments.

[carbonated]

If everyonen seems decently towny to you do you just sit there and be like. Oh, everyone is towny. I guess we just don’t execute my top townread and execute everyone else? Of course not. I’m going to find what I find things I don’t like to be.

[Mistyx]

okay then

i think the things you are looking for are generally non indicative

giving votes or reads without reasoning is usually =rand if not towny, since it’s usually trivial for wolves to fake reasoning if they care

inconsistencies and changing reads are significantly more context dependent than you’re giving them credit for - most people will change their minds on some things just from thinking on them, and like 70% of this community has adhd so we’re always thinking on them

i do not think you are looking deeply into the motivation behind actions which i think is the best way to find wolves

[apennine]

Sure, I can try.

Mostly it’s that I eventually came to the conclusion (with the help of your prodding) that her behavior that I was suspecting her for was probably not actually evidence for her being mafia. Me not wanting to give it a pass isn’t really good reasoning.

Also, once she did start giving reads more, I found them pretty believable.

There’s also her opening which I still found pretty towny, I thought her initial response to Zone felt very genuine.

It’s a read I still feel conflicted on because the incorrect confidence on me is something that always makes it more difficult for me to assess people’s true intentions.

Overall, after the Frost flip, I had the sense that mafia were more likely to be players who weren’t making waves and doing just enough to stay out of the spotlight rather than people who drawing my attention or frustrating me. To me, that points to childe and Ishmael.

[apennine]

It probably wouldn’t help, but if you’d like I can point out ways I think I’d play this differently if I were mafia!

One thing that comes to mind is how I approached Zone on Day 1. I put a lot of effort into trying to redirect his energy in a direction that would help town. A lot of people seemed to be finding him abrasive or were otherwise not wanting to work with him, and if I were mafia, it would benefit me to maintain that thread environment. Instead I tried to push him towards being a positive thread leader and working with other town.

[apennine]

I agree with this, for what it’s worth.

I don’t think Misty’s read changes are suspicious. I think those sorts of inconsistencies are suspicious when the player could be getting some benefit from doing so as mafia. This is why I was suspicious of Frost: I felt that him pushing a POE of players and then suddenly flipping on that when they were all the top wagons at the end of day felt like trying to look good off an inevitable town death. And since the reasoning behind those read flips wasn’t ever explained, it felt unnatural to me.

In this case I think Misty’s read changes feel believable and not for any specific benefit. If she’s mafia, she’s likely mostly just trying to look genuine in her solving. Generally I think her posts on an individual level look quite good.

My main concern with her is what feels like a lack of a broad view of the game. Her focus currently is pretty narrow, it’s not very clear if she has significant townreads, nor does it feel like she’s looking for someone who could be my partner. This has potential mafia motivation because she is a suspect herself, and if she is mafia her partner likely is as well, so she’s incentivized to keep attention directed elsewhere.

This could partly be playstyle, but I would still like to see more proactivity in building a towncore or defending players she thinks are being mis-pushed.

[apennine]

Continuing this, I honestly don’t feel much need to sanity check carbonated. Her latest posts feel very towny, and from a self-centered perspective, I think from her position as perhaps most widely townread player she would not need to defend me as strongly as she is. I would be a valuable misexecution for the mafia, and I think the strength of her defense could actually result in preventing that.

[apennine]

VOTE: Ishmael

[carbonated]

I have nothing to add to this except this:

(I genuinely have no words this describes my best reaction)

[carbonated]

@apennine

Overall, after the Frost flip, I had the sense that mafia were more likely to be players who weren’t making waves and doing just enough to stay out of the spotlight rather than people who drawing my attention or frustrating me. To me, that points to childe and Ishmael.

Oh I would be okay with these votes actually. That and Mistyx.